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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2010 6:21:03 GMT
Most lesbian bars and clubs exclude all males as customers and visitors! i support their right to do so! The homosexual community simply should respect the fact that there are exclusively heterosexual events too!
Do they? Perhaps there are practical reasons for that such as stupid men going there to cause trouble? I don't know. I've been in a lesbian bar where there were men although most men I know wouldn't want to go there and the only other ''gay'' pub I've been in was for both sexes and did not check your sexuality at the door. I suppose technically, as a heterosexual, I shouldn't have been allowed in either place? Why? The prom is not a heterosexual activity. It's a school activity and a rite of passage for all students. It's heterocentric (I don't know if that's a word) but that's because most people are heterosexual. In no way does that preclude a homosexual attending. There are no rights of the heterosexual community to defend because having a gay couple at a dance does not infringe anyone's rights whatsoever. I can see the need for a gay prom if this is the reaction gay people get. I can't see the need for an "exclusively heterosexual" prom any more than you might need ''exclusively heterosexual'' french classes. What's next? "Exclusively white" proms? That student's concerns are pathetic. ''Ruining'' a senior year...get a life. I suppose it doesn't dawn on the student that the fuss about lesbians attending is ''ruining'' a fellow classmate's senior year in a much nastier way; by telling that classmate she is wrong to be who she is. This was a good chance for all the students to unite behind their fellow classmate in a fight for liberty and the pursuit of happiness and have a great senior year - all together. That they didn't unite can be the only thing that has ruined the year. Maybe the sulky ''you've runined my senior year'' teen will see that when she grows up. Let's hope. I hope the school gets pounded over this debacle. Disgusting.
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2010 6:29:53 GMT
How do proms work? I mean, can you attend without a partner, and if so, are you at a disadvantage? I just can't get my head around the idea that they are a good thing. Yup. First prom I ever came across was in 'Carrie'. Never been able to think of them as a benign thing since . . I mean, what's the point in prettying up in a nice dress when you're going to end up the night covered in pig's blood and stuff? And then there was the prom in 'Grease' . . . it seems to be an event where a bunch of 20-something year olds dress up as teenagers and get off with people who're not their girlfriends. Ireland has the ''Debs'' in the Autumn after you leave school. It's a prom without the king and queen and all that fuss & it's a debutante ball without the class. It's ..."an event where a bunch of [18] year olds dress up as [20-somethings] and get off with people who're not their girlfriends." It's also the official drinking debut for the class of whatever. We have all the glam dresses and tuxedos and some people do the limo thing and pre-debs cocktail parties, others drink cider in a field beforehand. It's totally your call. A bit of fun to celebrate a momentus occasion - the end of school and the arrival of ''adulthood''.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 7:34:52 GMT
Would the student have been reasonable to take a stand, I wonder, if the school had told her she could come with her partner, but both had to wear dresses?
I find the idea of bringing partners of the opposite sex odd. Surely not everyone will know someone they can invite; will they feel odd arriving alone? Why shouldn't they bring a friend of the same sex if they want to, of whichever orietation.
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Post by jade on Mar 12, 2010 8:53:06 GMT
Maybe they thought that dressing up in a frock, doing all the preprom planning (as much as a wedding!) and having to find a date would "cure" her
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Post by jean on Mar 12, 2010 8:55:05 GMT
This was a good chance for all the students to unite behind their fellow classmate in a fight for liberty and the pursuit of happiness and have a great senior year - all together. That they didn't unite can be the only thing that has ruined the year. Yes indeed - and how easy it would have been! The whole thing takes you back to the 1950s.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 9:00:52 GMT
Even if you don't accept that the "frock" rule is reasonable (and it could well pose problems for Muslim girls) isn't it somewhat provocative to demand to wear a tuxedo, which is the standard dress for the boys? She could surely have found something that she felt comfortable with - though requiring her partner to arrive separately is way out of order.
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Post by jean on Mar 12, 2010 9:04:11 GMT
Provocative? Who on earth would she have been provoking?
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Post by jade on Mar 12, 2010 9:06:11 GMT
If I were a lesbian american schoolgirl I would want the tuxedo bit too. I woud want to look as glorious as any date, and nothing cries glamour like a tux.
As a protest, when they do relent and allow the prom all the kids should wear tuxedos
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2010 9:11:10 GMT
Jean, I think that sort of stand smacks of the insistence of Muslim girls to wear veils in class; it is comes uncomfortably close to attention seeking behaviour. Perhaps there is better reason to ban face coverings than there is to refuse to allow a girl to wear a boy's dress; but perhaps the authorities are concerned that if everyone just throws the traditions out of the window, the spirit of the prom will be lost.
Maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing, come to think of it. Why not allow boys to wear what they like as well (yes, including frocks); they don't seem to have a choice, and hiring tuxedos they will wear only once must come expensive.
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Post by mouse on Mar 12, 2010 9:29:40 GMT
i dont understand the idea of a prom at all..all seems very americanised to me...
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Post by randomvioce on Mar 12, 2010 9:36:11 GMT
Most lesbian bars and clubs exclude all males as customers and visitors! i support their right to do so! The homosexual community simply should respect the fact that there are exclusively heterosexual events too!
This is not a 'hetrosexual' event, this is a school event, both women are pupils of the school, they are both entitled to go and one of them wants to wear a tux. I believe in freedom, therefore I am on their side rather than the backward redneck scum. THREE CHEERS FOR THE ACLU UPHOLDING AMERICAN VALUES
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 12, 2010 9:51:00 GMT
Question.
Does anyone know of the existence of a 'lesbian bar' anywhere in the UK which bans men?
In Glasgow, one of our biggest cities, I know we have a LGBT 'area' (a handful of pubs and cafes close to each other), but girls and boys of all sexualities go there. It's just that the area is seen as LGBT 'friendly'.
Same in Edinburgh, which is famous for its thriving LGBT community.
So I want to know where these 'lesbian bars' are?
Are they solely a US thing? And whereabouts in the US are they?
I've done some googling, and there were, for instance, several lesbian bars in Chicago, but they were not 'women-only' by rules (they may have ended up that way by the choice of drinkers - but men were not 'banned') and they have mostly closed now.
So here's today's challenge . . . find a link to a 'lesbian bar' where men are banned.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 12, 2010 9:54:16 GMT
Even if you don't accept that the "frock" rule is reasonable (and it could well pose problems for Muslim girls) isn't it somewhat provocative to demand to wear a tuxedo, which is the standard dress for the boys? She could surely have found something that she felt comfortable with - though requiring her partner to arrive separately is way out of order. As Trubble has already pointed out, women wearing tuxedos is passe. It is not 'provocative' in the slightest.
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Post by jean on Mar 12, 2010 10:00:08 GMT
Jean, I think that sort of stand smacks of the insistence of Muslim girls to wear veils in class; it is comes uncomfortably close to attention seeking behaviour. But what is all the dressing up, the stretch limos, the whole lot of it, if not attention-seeking?
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Post by jean on Mar 12, 2010 10:06:52 GMT
...women wearing tuxedos is passe... Not so much 1950s as 1920s:
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Post by jade on Mar 12, 2010 10:13:14 GMT
Prom, like wedding, is all about "look aint I pretty, and I am beautiful and my frock is lovely and my partners looks lovely and did I mention I was pretty?"
attention seeking at its best
after that its back in the tracky suit
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2010 10:40:52 GMT
Why not allow boys to wear what they like as well (yes, including frocks); they don't seem to have a choice, and hiring tuxedos they will wear only once must come expensive. The point is to come dressed for a ball. Men wearing dresses has never passed into mainstream acceptance the way women wearing trousers or suits has. A tux at a dance is only a step further than a pair of jeans on the street and not that controversial. I wouldn't bother to argue against a boy who wanted to wear a ballgown to the prom (though I might suggest it's all a bit silly to get het up about a frock) but I don't think it's in the same vein as a woman wearing a tux (though I might suggest there's no need to go to war over a tux).
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Post by trubble on Mar 12, 2010 10:42:39 GMT
Prom, like wedding, is all about "look aint I pretty, and I am beautiful and my frock is lovely and my partners looks lovely and did I mention I was pretty?" attention seeking at its best after that its back in the tracky suit And why not? Could be fun.
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Post by jean on Mar 12, 2010 10:49:39 GMT
Just FTR, when my partner and I had our civil partnership, we both wore trousers, and I wore a linen jacket - but not a tuxedo.
She made us wear corsages, though. I wouldn't have bothered.
And we went to the registry office on the train.
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Post by fretslider on Mar 12, 2010 10:53:42 GMT
This is not a 'hetrosexual' event, this is a school event No, this is a complete bore. People might find they would enjoy sex more if they just got on with it, rather than indulging in middle class hand-wringing and angst. Whatever floats your boat.
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