♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 28, 2010 1:55:10 GMT
NPR put out this interesting radio report about will power and the brain. www.npr.org/templates/player/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=122781981&m=122971033www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122781981 QUOTE: January 26, 2010 This time, you say to yourself, this time I will do 50 chin-ups every day or skip dessert or call my mother every Friday. It's time to do those things that I know, I really, really know I should do. And then you don't. According to British psychologist Richard Wiseman, 88 percent of all resolutions end in failure. Those are his findings from a 2007 University of Hertfordshire study of more than 3,000 people. How come so many attempts at willpower lose both their will and their power? In our Radiolab excerpt on Morning Edition, with my co-host, Jad Abumrad, we propose an answer ... Jonah Lehrer, one of our regular reporters (he writes all the time about the brain), told Jad and me about an experiment involving the prefrontal cortex, located just behind the forehead. It's the brain area largely responsible for willpower. This hunk of brain tissue, he says, has greatly expanded over the last few hundred-thousand years, but "it probably hasn't expanded enough." The reason our willpower is so often weak, he suggests, is because this bit of brain lacks a certain (how shall we put this?) ... In his book How We Decide, and in a recent Wall Street Journal article, Jonah writes about an experiment by Stanford University professor Baba Shiv, who collected several dozen undergraduates and divided them into two groups. In the WSJ article, Jonah writes: "One group was given a two-digit number to remember, while the second group was given a seven-digit number. Then they were told to walk down the hall, where they were presented with two different snack options: a slice of chocolate cake or a bowl of fruit salad." And then he writes: "Here's where the results get weird. The students with seven digits to remember were nearly twice as likely to choose the cake as students given two digits. The reason, according to Professor Shiv, is that those extra numbers took up valuable space in the brain — they were a "cognitive load" — making it that much harder to resist a decadent dessert. In other words, willpower is so weak, and the prefrontal cortex is so overtaxed, that all it takes is five extra bits of information before the brain starts to give in to temptation." It turns out, Jonah explains, that the part of our brain that is most reasonable, rational and do-the-right-thing is easily toppled by the pull of raw sensual appetite, the lure of sweet. Knowing something is the right thing to do takes work — brain work — and our brains aren't always up to that. The experiment, after all, tells us brains can't even hold more than seven numbers at a time. Add five extra digits, and good sense tiptoes out of your head, and in comes the cake. "This helps explain why, after a long day at the office, we're more likely to indulge in a pint of ice cream, or eat one too many slices of leftover pizza," Lehrer writes. You can hear Shiv describe this experiment (and listen to our unique dramatization of cortexes fighting pastry) by hitting the "Listen" button up above on this page.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 28, 2010 16:28:00 GMT
Ah, Mike will be interested in this, Anna. He'll be along later and will no doubt have lots to say on the subject!
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 28, 2010 23:55:21 GMT
Yes, Lin informed me earlier about your post, Anna, and I have been busy producing one or two pieces from Wikipedia to begin the discussion. The first is not excessively long so I shall quote it in its entirety. The second is far too long to reproduce in full so I will merely post it as a link. To begin, then: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volition_(psychology)Volition or will is the cognitive process by which an individual decides on and commits to a particular course of action. It is defined as purposive striving, and is one of the primary human psychological functions (the others being affection [affect or feeling], motivation [goals and expectations] and cognition [thinking]). Volitional processes can be applied consciously, and they can be automatized as habits over time. Most modern conceptions of volition address it as a process of action control that becomes automatized (see e.g., Heckhausen and Kuhl; Gollwitzer; Boekaerts and Corno). Willpower is the colloquial, and volition the scientific, term for the same state of the will; viz., an "elective preference". When we have "made up our minds" (as we say) to a thing, i.e., have a settled state of choice respecting it, that state is called an immanent volition; when we put forth any particular act of choice, that act is called an emanant, or executive, or imperative, volition. When an immanent, or settled state of, choice, is one which controls or governs a series of actions, we call that state a predominant volition; while we give the name of subordinate volitions to those particular acts of choice which carry into effect the object sought for by the governing or "predominant volition". Within Gary Kielhofner's "Model of Human Occupation" volition is one of the three sub-systems that act on human behavior. Within this model volition considers a person's values, interests and beliefs about self-efficacy and personal capacity. The book A Bias for Action by Heike Bruch and Sumantra Ghoshal discusses the difference between willpower and motivation. In doing so, the authors use the term volition as a synonym to willpower and describe briefly the theories of Narziss Ach and Kurt Lewin. While Lewin argues that motivation and volition are one and the same, the authors claim that Ach argues differently. According to the authors, Ach claims that there is a certain threshold - when desire lies below this threshold, it is just motivation, whereas when desire crosses this threshold, it becomes volition. With this example, the authors point out the difference in commitment levels of individuals to tasks, by measuring it on the scale of intent - from motivation to volition. Modern writing on the role of volition in impulse control (e.g., Kuhl and Heckhausen) and in education (e.g., Corno) also makes this distinction. Corno's model ties volition to the processes of self-regulated learning. Willpower is a concept that assumes we are under rational control, and the reduction of the same results in a lack of willpower. The fact is that we turn our rationality to serve our impulses or wishes, and sometimes have great willpower in pursuing them. Thus an alcoholic can be very cunning in achieving his determination to drink, and may display great willpower in achieving this goal. At other moments, he may rationally know that this behavior destroys his life, and costs him all that is dear to him, and may resolve for the moment to forgo it. That is when the observer deduces that willpower is a key to success, and with sufficient will he would remain with that promise. However, at another moment another urge may become important, and he devotes his will and his rationality to satisfying that urge. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ConationI have simply posted the wiki link to the article on conation as it is far too long to post in total. It is not the most authoritative account of the process but wikipedia does have the merit of being readily accessible which is not always the case with some important work that has been done in the field. The observer's error is to assume that the human is a rational creature, and that will should serve that rationality. In fact, we are only partly rational, and often our rationality and determination serve various motivations that occur for causes other than reason.
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 29, 2010 0:04:55 GMT
Now I shall enter my own thoughts on the subject. To begin with, any explanation that seeks to give an account of the will - whether frankly philosophical or presented in the guise of psychology - has to deal with the five fundamental problems of philosophy of mind.
1 How do the mind and body interact? 2 The 'nature or nurture' question - how much of ourselves is already encapsulated within us at birth in our genetic coding and how much is the result of environmental factors? 3 Do the processes known as volition and conation actually occur? 4 If the will is free, how can ANY of our actions be rational rather than random? 5 If the will is not free, how can we be praised or blamed, still less rewarded or punished, for out actions?
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 29, 2010 0:09:23 GMT
Now to return to the original article. We are all familiar with having the intention to perform some action and either not commencing it all or abandoning it without completing the act.
There is a lot that can be said (and has been) on this subject by philosophers and psychologists over the course of many years.
The explanation to me is rather simple I am afraid.
What we think of as our free 'will' is actually governed by motives.
We simply allow the predominating motive at that moment in time to guide our actions.
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Post by beth on Jan 29, 2010 3:11:27 GMT
What's the old saw? "He who hesitates is lost" . . . is that it? In some cases, that's truth in a nut shell. In others it may be just the opposite, if a little caution is needed. Likewise, will power can be needed to say "no", and equally necessary to say, "yes". The key to how successfully one can apply will power is self motivation. It may be possible to learn to self motivate, but from everything I've seen I think it's most likely "nature" - an hereditary trait, although events in life can certainly increase or decrease the aptitude. Sometimes it's referred to as "drive", but it is really just a matter of trusting one's own judgment and having follow-through. During the '80s I worked as a career consultant. This subject came into play almost everyday when evaluating clients and working with them to improve career intuitive. Interesting work. Sometimes I miss it.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 29, 2010 4:07:38 GMT
Very advanced psychology Mike! I used to believe in the deterministic-no free will-vision of mankind. This may sound illogical, but i just have the overwhelming belief that the existence of "consciousness" is in conflict with the deterministic belief.
I interpreted the article i posted more simply. I'm certainly not into "Freudian psychology", but the article seems to associate "will power" with Freud's Super Ego or conscience! That would exclude a criminal, toxomanic or self destructive definition of will power! The drive to consume the cake would correspond to Freud's ID.
Most scholars believe or suspect that Freud based his system on Christianity too-God-man-devil.. It may be simplistic, but it's understandable.
The article's main point seemed to be that if what Freud called the Ego becomes too overburdened with memorisation than the ID plays more of a role in decisions such as should i eat the cake or the salad? I've always been surprised by the number of very obese people, who are so highly active and engaged with so many things.
On the other hand very idle people can also easily lapse into pleasing the senses, instead of choosing a healthier option.
I think the overall message is simple and instructive! It's just as my father always said! Extremes-too much or too little are negative! In this case mental overactivity or excessive memorisation can lead to unwise choices as the study shows just as mental underactivity ( an idle mind ) can become the "devil's playground".
Sorry about sounding so "theological", but i do believe that we can go towards the light or drift into the darkness or be half and half depending on our decisions at the crossroads in life. Atheists seem to prefer the explanation that some of our brain centers are more "reptilian" than the part of our consciousness associated with wisdom and morality. I guess our little egos are between these two realms.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2010 7:40:32 GMT
Perhaps habit plays a big part; if we are pre-occupied we are more likely to do what we usually do. That happened to me yesterday when I was late for an appointment because I got tied up with important business (probably here)! It was less than a mile away so I walked as I usually do, but a moment's reflection would have told me to take the car.
Likewise, when I was trying to put on weight, I had to consciously remember not to take the low-fat option.
That doesn't entirely account for the cake-versus-salad choosers in the expriment, unless they were all carbohydrate lovers who regard fruit salad as second best. Even in my thin days it would have been more of a treat than boring old. cake (unless very, very special ).
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Post by beth on Jan 30, 2010 6:10:01 GMT
I think this also has to do with A and B personality types.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 30, 2010 18:20:38 GMT
Mike's overcomplicating things as usual.
It's quite simple really.
If I see ice cream/chocolate or some similar kind of foodstuff I just HAVE to EAT it!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2010 18:46:18 GMT
Well, it did occur to me that the cake-versus-fruit-salad experiment in the OP had less to do with willpower than the fact that those who need to remember seven numbers instead of two needed theextra carbohydrates!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 31, 2010 4:15:17 GMT
When i played in chess tournaments i used to snack on all kinds of junk food, sugared cola, chocolate bars and ice cream, if available to dope myself up. Of course when you play a chess game seriously your head is full of all these move variations and the memory from past experience plays a big role too. Actually i'm kind of a health nut and gave up sugar cola completely and have hardly touched the other junk foods after i gave up tournament chess.
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Post by mouse on Feb 8, 2010 10:09:42 GMT
ah will power...and the brain trying to stop smoking i tried nicotine patches....... funny though i smoke more with patches on than i do without the patches..... so i no longer use patches and can with little effort[will power] cut down to just 10 a day... so what does that say about the brain and its messages
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