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Post by fretslider on Jan 28, 2010 20:02:56 GMT
What I find sad, even amusing, is that for all of the faults of the EU - and there are a great many - everybody ignores the real political travesty; the system of democracy in the UK.
Despite all that has gone on and what has come to light, where is the outrage?
We have an elected dictatorship, one of two parties and they take turns.
Does anybody not feel a tinge of jealousy that other countries have written constitutions, fixed term parliaments with wholly elected chambers, the power of recall and petition, ergo referenda.
When the expenses scandal broke an elected HoS could have intervened. The Monarchy may have the powers on paper, but the reality is that as an unelected Head Mrs Windsor can never act, you know what the politicians would say - and that is why they wish to preserve the Monarchy as it is.
In short we have the most undemocratic democracy in the developed world, one where you can go to a poll when the PM decides you can based on his estimation of winning the vote.
Yes the EU should have a bicameral Parliament, and as I said earlier, all the checks and balances. But shouldn't the clean-up start a little closer to home?
Where is the political reform agenda? Its been swept under the carpet and the British remain asleep.
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 28, 2010 22:32:43 GMT
You are quite correct, Fretslider.
The system of 'government' within our country simply allows an alternating pair of tailor's dummies to attempt to misrule us for a period of up to five years.
It is difficult to see many signficant differences between Labour and the Tories, particularly since Cameron became the leader and made his one and only policy that of being all things to all people.
It is not much better with the smaller parties. Nobody takes Nick Clegg seriously as a potential Prime Minister; Peter Robinson has become an embarrassment in Northern Ireland; Plaid Cymru have done nothing significant in Wales since taking power; and even the SNP, the party with perhaps the most astute and certainly the most cynical current party leader, will not be in a position to achieve Scottish independence within the lifetime of the next Parliament.
It is obvious to everyone that we have been slowly sliding towards a dictatorship for at least the last thirty or forty years.
It is equally obvious that our constitutional rights, as laid down in such documents as Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus and the Bill of Rights, are regularly ignored, trodden down and dismissed.
We are compelled to pay taxes and receive a quality of service in return that is a disgrace when contrasted with the amount of revnue we receive.
Billions of pounds are squandered on stupidity while requests for much needed but smaller amounts are turned down.
Nothing is done and nothing ever will be done.
As the old joke has it, 'anarchy doesn't rule but it's OK!'
I proudly nail my colours to the mast of the black flag and declare myself persuaded that the evils resulting from the very existence of government vastly outweigh the minimal benefits that accrue to us from that institution.
Of course, it will require either a revolution or the complete and utter collapse of the capitalist system but the first possibility is less remote now than at any time since the late sixties and early seventies.
As for capitalism, it has clearly demonstrated that, like socialism, it is a failed ideology whose demise is unfolding before our very eyes every day.
We are now abandoning democracy and liberty and moving in an inexorable goose-step towards fascism, or at least towards what Hilaire Belloc, as long ago as 1910, referred to as 'The Servile State.'
We must be ready to pick up the pieces ourselves when this botched pseudo-civilisation eventually tumbles down as Humpty Dumpty did from his own precarious wall.
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Post by fretslider on Jan 28, 2010 22:49:25 GMT
You are quite correct, Fretslider. The system of 'government' within our country simply allows an alternating pair of tailor's dummies to attempt to misrule us for a period of up to five years. It is difficult to see many signficant differences between Labour and the Tories, particularly since Cameron became the leader and made his one and only policy that of being all things to all people. It is not much better with the smaller parties. Nobody takes Nick Clegg seriously as a potential Prime Minister; Peter Robinson has become an embarrassment in Northern Ireland; Plaid Cymru have done nothing significant in Wales since taking power; and even the SNP, the party with perhaps the most astute and certainly the most cynical current party leader, will not be in a position to achieve Scottish independence within the lifetime of the next Parliament. It is obvious to everyone that we have been slowly sliding towards a dictatorship for at least the last thirty or forty years. It is equally obvious that our constitutional rights, as laid down in such documents as Magna Carta, Habeas Corpus and the Bill of Rights, are regularly ignored, trodden down and dismissed. We are compelled to pay taxes and receive a quality of service in return that is a disgrace when contrasted with the amount of revnue we receive. Billions of pounds are squandered on stupidity while requests for much needed but smaller amounts are turned down. Nothing is done and nothing ever will be done. As the old joke has it, 'anarchy doesn't rule but it's OK!' I proudly nail my colours to the mast of the black flag and declare myself persuaded that the evils resulting from the very existence of government vastly outweigh the minimal benefits that accrue to us from that institution. Of course, it will require either a revolution or the complete and utter collapse of the capitalist system but the first possibility is less remote now than at any time since the late sixties and early seventies. As for capitalism, it has clearly demonstrated that, like socialism, it is a failed ideology whose demise is unfolding before our very eyes every day. We are now abandoning democracy and liberty and moving in an inexorable goose-step towards fascism, or at least towards what Hilaire Belloc, as long ago as 1910, referred to as 'The Servile State.' We must be ready to pick up the pieces ourselves when this botched pseudo-civilisation eventually tumbles down as Humpty Dumpty did from his own precarious wall. Well, Mike its good to see I'm not alone. I would say that the only way we will ever get change, dare I say what we want, is by an uprising, a revolution, call it what you will. As a mark of my sentiment I am changing my avatar to reflect my beliefs and feelings....there is something wrong with this country.....
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Post by mouse on Jan 28, 2010 23:04:37 GMT
[ only a few years ater the Jacobite rebellion under Bonnie Prince Charlie, a Scot could be considered trustworthy enough to lead the whole nation. and bliar and brown have proved entirely the oposite....never mind...lol.....at least bliar isnt president of the eu..mind you it would have hastened its demise if only in an un-warrented war
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Post by mouse on Jan 28, 2010 23:08:04 GMT
[ dare I say what we want, is by an uprising, a revolution, call it what you will. As a mark of my sentiment I am changing my avatar to reflect my beliefs and feelings....there is something wrong with this country..... there is some thing very very desperately wrong with this country.....has been for some years and while we may not want revolution/uprising...it may be some thing we need
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 28, 2010 23:24:41 GMT
I like the idea of the EU in concept. But I don't like the EU as it has turned out in actuality. Way too liberal. Their stance on the death penalty is just one example. Europe has great people, great history, great food (except for Germany and England), great scenery, and great culture. The governments generally suck. The EU governing body is a perfect example. They suck more than most.
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Post by fretslider on Jan 28, 2010 23:28:26 GMT
[ dare I say what we want, is by an uprising, a revolution, call it what you will. As a mark of my sentiment I am changing my avatar to reflect my beliefs and feelings....there is something wrong with this country..... there is some thing very very desperately wrong with this country.....has been for some years and while we may not want revolution/uprising...it may be some thing we need Believe me, there is no other way.
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Post by firedancer on Jan 29, 2010 12:33:09 GMT
A couple of days ago I posted In an earlier post I quoted struggling Greece and wealthier Germany as an example of the way one size can't fit all. So I was amused (not in a good way) therefore to see today's business news No EU bail-out for GreeceExtract Funds flee Greece as Germany warns of "fatal" eurozone crisis Germany has triggered a near-panic flight from southern European debt markets by warning that there will be no EU bail-outs, even though it fears the region's economic crisis has turned dangerous and could prove "fatal" for the entire eurozone.
The yield on 10-year Greek bonds blasted upwards by over 40 basis points to 7.15pc in a day of wild trading. Spreads over German Bunds reached almost four percentage points, by far the highest since Greece joined the euro, and close to levels that risk a self-feeding spiral. Contagion hit Portuguese, Spanish, Irish, and Italian bonds.
George Papandreou, the Greek premier, said in Davos that his country had been singled out as the weak link in a "attack on the eurozone" by speculators and political foes. "We are being targeted, particularly by those with an ulterior motive."
Marc Ostwald, from Monument Securities, said the botched bond issue of €8bn (£6.9bn) of Greek debt earlier this week has made matters worse. Many of the investors were "hot money" funds that bought on rumours that China was emerging as a buyer, offering them a chance for quick profit. When the China story was denied by Beijing and Athens, these funds rushed for the exit.
However, a key trigger yesterday was testimony in Germany's parliament by economy minister Rainer Brüderle, who said there would be "no bail-outs" for struggling debtors and no move to a "European economic government". "A few European nations are exhibiting dangerous weaknesses. That could have fatal consequences for all countries in the eurozone," he said. Despite the warning, he said each country must solve its own problems.
"Germany is not in a mood to be the deep pocket for what they consider profligate, southern neighbours," said hedge fund doyen George Soros.Quite how struggling Eurozone countries are going to fix their own problems when they have no national control over their own interest rates without further crippling themselves remains to be seen. One size does not fit all. The Eurozone is the biggest Achilles heel of the EU.
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Post by fretslider on Jan 29, 2010 13:48:37 GMT
In an earlier post I quoted struggling Greece and wealthier Germany as an example of the way one size can't fit all. I guess that is how the good people of Maryland, California etc feel about Alabama, Mississipi etc Why didn't you quote the struggling UK? we are second only to Greece, aren't we and we pay exchange rates too.
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Post by firedancer on Jan 29, 2010 14:10:43 GMT
Hallo fretslider
Because we are not part of the eurozone and, as I said, it is the eurozone that (at least currently I believe) that is the EU's biggest Achilles heel.
I don't dispute that we are struggling.
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Post by jean on Jan 29, 2010 15:27:20 GMT
I like the idea of the EU in concept. But I don't like the EU as it has turned out in actuality. Way too liberal. Their stance on the death penalty is just one example. You can't blame Brussels bureaucrats for that! I think you'll find that at the inception of the EU there were no countries involved that still had the death penalty.
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Post by jean on Jan 29, 2010 15:28:48 GMT
I'm fed up with my euros costing more and more every time I go abroad.
I realise that this is a very selfish viewpoint, however.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 29, 2010 15:33:01 GMT
I like the idea of the EU in concept. But I don't like the EU as it has turned out in actuality. Way too liberal. Their stance on the death penalty is just one example. You can't blame Brussels bureaucrats for that! I think you'll find that at the inception of the EU there were no countries involved that still had the death penalty. that's true, even though the majority of the populace supports it. however, in the morally proper frame of things, that decision is left to each country, just as here in the u.s., it is left to each state. what is NOT legitimate, is a central government coming off trying to dictate such ignorance to sovereign nations besides, that's not even the root of the problem. the root is the ignorant nutjobs in brussels' stated adoration of murderers
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Post by fretslider on Jan 29, 2010 15:44:51 GMT
Hallo fretslider Because we are not part of the eurozone and, as I said, it is the eurozone that (at least currently I believe) that is the EU's biggest Achilles heel. I don't dispute that we are struggling. But we are disadvantaged being outside it. The Euro will supercede the Dollar as the major currency of reserve. Sterling is nothing more than the speculators plaything. The struggle has barely begun, unfortunately.
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Post by randomvioce on Jan 29, 2010 16:08:29 GMT
I'm fed up with my euros costing more and more every time I go abroad. I realise that this is a very selfish viewpoint, however. You are not the only one, Jean. Lots of exports feel the same way and that is costing jobs.
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Post by mouse on Jan 29, 2010 23:38:55 GMT
there is some thing very very desperately wrong with this country.....has been for some years and while we may not want revolution/uprising...it may be some thing we need Believe me, there is no other way. i realise that..but not some thing to be looked forward too...nothing more vicious than a civil war
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Post by mouse on Jan 29, 2010 23:43:02 GMT
. Europe has great people, great history, great food (except for Germany and England), great scenery, and great culture.. may i say the food of England is fantastic....the problem is that vry few cook English food...especially now the supermarkets hold sway with their tasteless meats..lack of fats..bland awfulness never think the crap you eat in England is necessarily English food
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 30, 2010 1:20:02 GMT
@ Mouse - France has incredible food. I can quickly think of 50 or 100 outstanding dishes. Ditto for Italy. But for England I can't come up with such a long list. There is prime rib of beef with Yorkshire pudding and horseradish sauce with is wonderful. There is also that amazing Stilton cheese and some of the white cheddars are good too. But steak and kidney pie - yuk. Marmite - double yuk. From my experience the best restaurants in the UK are French or Italian not British. I'll be interested in your reply.
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Post by mouse on Jan 30, 2010 10:02:44 GMT
france also has some pretty awful food..lol english food...very few resturants provide good englishfood...and as i said very few can actually prepare it first take into consideration the country the climate
steak and kidney pie cooked properly with melt in the mouth pastry and first class meats and gravey marmite??? not exactly a staple dietry thing but trout stuffed with almonds hand made melton mowbery pies pheasant stuffed with cranberries and garlic english lamb with all the trimming bakewell tart almond maids of honour an old fashioned stock pot yorkshires served the prper way a real bread and butter pudding treakle sponge butter beans and bacon ribs a real trifle try some of mrs beetons reciepes or even delia smiths but never super market meat which has never been hung long enough or supermarket chicken fed on rubish...as are most supermarket potatos and veg.....you get what you pay for in the end and every thing depends on how you cook and what you serve with it i lurve my food..always have done..but its 10 am and cant think till i have had my full english breakfast
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 30, 2010 15:56:38 GMT
In the first place what exactly do you mean by English food?
If it comes to that, what about Scottish, Welsh and Irish food?
What about regional food (you can't get a chip buttie south of the Trent, for instance, and getting liver sausage north of it is a problem too)?
Britain invented fish and chips, for instance, and NOBODY abroad can make it as well as we do.
Roast beef and Yorkshire pudding.
We have the BEST peas in the world.
We have the BEST pears and apples in the world.
We invented bacon and eggs.
We are the only country that knows how to fried bread properly.
We invented bread and dripping which is delicious!
We have the best radishes in the world.
We have the best herrings and kippers in the world.
We have the best bread in the world (if you're willing to pay extra for the good stuff!)
We are the only people who know how to make mint sauce rather than the disgusting mint jelly the Americans go in for.
We are the only people who know how to make custard.
We make the best puddings in the world - sweet and savoury.
We make the best bacon dishes in the world.
We make the best Christmas puddings in the world.
We are the only country that knows how to make crumpets and how to serve them to perfection - with melted cheese on top!
We make the best cheese in the world.
We make the best real ale in the world.
We make the best whiskey in the world.
We make the best spring greens in the world.
We make the best strawberries in the world.
I could go on but that'll do for starters!
Tourists come - especially to London - and eat in Macdonalds, Italian restaurants, Chinese restaurants and so on and then complain they don't like English food!
Well, that's because you haven't EATEN it!
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