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Post by mouse on Jan 15, 2010 12:33:14 GMT
""which is, as is the case of everything, without exception, that the eu says, abject stupidity"" absolutely jumbo...but you left out corrupt....self serving...totalitarian...undemorcratic and down right and out and out criminal .
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Post by firedancer on Jan 15, 2010 20:50:44 GMT
For me it's about two things - numbers and assimilation. England (not Britain) is the most crowded country in Europe now, apart from Malta. We have 84% of the UK population and density is treble that of the European average. As one of your oldest (I imagine) posters I have memories of a time when people outside the big cities had space. In the last 20 years my part of the country has changed from a largely rural environment to one where towns are joining up ribbon fashion. It is in that triangle where the Government had plans to concrete over the country That's an exaggeration I know, but only slightly. In my immediate geographical area there are plans to plonk down 20,000 more houses despite the fact that, for example, the local general hospital is up to capacity and there is minimal room for it to expand. There are no plans for a new hospital. Of course the increase is only partly down to immigration - internal cultural and demographic changes are the biggest contributor. But I honestly believe we should pull back on numbers and give ourselves a breathing space. Let's not make the situation worse than it is going to be anyway. If you pack too many rats together in too small a space it leads to aggression. In that respect I am not sure we are all that more evolved than rats in our ability to deal with overcrowding.
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Post by mouse on Jan 15, 2010 23:15:01 GMT
"" England (not Britain) is the most crowded country in Europe now, apart from Malta. We have 84% of the UK population and density is treble that of the European average. "" spot on.....overcrowded..over built....over full......
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Post by clemiethedog on Jan 19, 2010 15:46:54 GMT
100 years ago Italians were chastised in a similar manner as Mexicans are today. Their English, German, and Irish forbearers, who also arrived sans residency documents, deridingly called them Wops (With-Out Papers). The Mexican (and Central and South American) immigrants perform menial labor and poverty-level wages, or worse yet live in slavery under the guise of sharecroppers. If the US were to deport all modern day Wops (i.e. illegal Latinos), the US economy would collapse.
Now we need to know who’s here, obviously, and an open door is implausible. Tight border security is necessary and the US has been pushing more and more funding in that direction. The best solution is for the Mexican economy to improve, for wages to rise to meet the cost of living there. Same with Haiti and the Dominican Republic, which has the most effective border.
Much of the distress in Latin America is a result of draconian measures by the US and its European allies. Best example is Haiti, now in the news after that indescribable tragedy now unfolding. Haiti is the second oldest republic in the Western Hemisphere, but the US, at the behest of its racist slave holding south, did not recognize their fellow republic. In addition, France, the former colonial power, demanded insane amount of monies as compensation for lost property (in this case, the property were the Haitians themselves, Haiti came into existence as a slave revolt), and the Haitians paid them off, with interest, over the course of about 120 years, incurring debts from other nations, such as the US, along the way. They were f’d from the get go.
Latin America was under the thumb of US corporations for over a century, and freedom only meant “non-communist”. The poverty and corruption are by-products of long-term US policy. Whenever there is misery and poverty, there will be migration.
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Post by mouse on Jan 19, 2010 18:45:14 GMT
"""Whenever there is misery and poverty, there will be migration""".....is that why brits are emmigrating to australia..canada etc
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Post by clemiethedog on Jan 20, 2010 14:12:23 GMT
Multiple reasons, I suppose. High real estate prices in the UK; living space; more hockey; surfing, take your pick.
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Post by mouse on Jan 20, 2010 17:12:38 GMT
""ltiple reasons, I suppose. High real estate prices in the UK; living space; more hockey; surfing, take your pick.""
"""Whenever there is misery and poverty, there will be migration""".you didnt mention hockey or surfing....and why is living space a problem in the uk....yup...and yet still we dont stop immigration....madness
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Post by clemiethedog on Jan 20, 2010 17:50:48 GMT
I never implied that poverty and misery were the sole reasons for migration. A little less flaming and little more reading may serve you well.
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Post by mouse on Jan 23, 2010 14:00:09 GMT
Latin America was under the thumb of US corporations for over a century, and freedom only meant “non-communist”. The poverty and corruption are by-products of long-term US policy. cWhenever there is misery and poverty, there will be migration.
may also serve you well and i quote ""Whenever there is misery and poverty, there will be migration."" no mention of other reason like hockey and surfing..
what is flaming
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 23, 2010 16:28:22 GMT
Flaming is hostile and insulting interaction between Internet users. Flaming usually occurs in the social context of a discussion board, Internet Relay Chat (IRC), by e-mail or on Video-sharing websites. It is usually the result of the discussion of heated real-world issues like politics, religion, and philosophy, or of issues that polarise subpopulations (for example, the perennial debating between PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 owners). Internet trolls frequently set out to incite flamewars for the sole purpose of offending or irritating other posters.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaming_(Internet)
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 23, 2010 16:48:12 GMT
Flaming is the often deliberate act of posting or writing messages on Internet bulletin boards and message groups that have the intent of insulting or creating dissent within a group. An Internet flame is often filled with coarse language and personal insults. It is meant to hurt people’s feelings, get them fired up, and not to further conversation on a personal issue. It is never conversational, but it may be meant to upset an entire group, provoking conversation about someone’s flame or on the practice of flaming in general.
Sometimes, people called Internet trolls intentionally practice flaming to provoke a group of people. This may be merely for the purpose of annoying a group, or may be an attack aimed at a group of people who have an interest not shared by the flamer. In a political message board for electing a certain presidential candidate, someone from an opposite camp might join the group and deliberately practice flaming to disorganize the efforts of the group. Piles and piles of messages that divert the group’s interest from their initial intent can follow a flame.
At other times, egotism causes a person to practice flaming. A person may feel that his or her opinion is the only valid one on the subject and state so in an insulting way. This may result in flame wars, where people on two different sides of an issue state opinions only and insult the person who “started the war.” Flame wars may only be resolved when the people involved decide that multiple opinions on subjects are to be expected.www.wisegeek.com/what-is-flaming.htmHowever, I wonder if you really are a flamer mouse, or if you're just guilty of bad netiquette. By which I mean, posting without using the quotes properly, poor spelling and grammar, etc. making your posts very difficult to read is very bad netiquette, as you are taking up peoples' time who have to try to interpret your meaning. Also, putting your views out there in a very confrontational style - like Jumbo - I am right and that's an end of it - is actually really bad manners too on message boards which are meant to be there for people to DISCUSS, to debate points, etc.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 23, 2010 19:15:26 GMT
Sometimes, people called Internet trolls intentionally practice flaming to provoke a group of people. This may be merely for the purpose of annoying a group, or may be an attack aimed at a group of people who have an interest not shared by the flamer. In a political message board for electing a certain presidential candidate, someone from an opposite camp might join the group and deliberately practice flaming to disorganize the efforts of the group. Piles and piles of messages that divert the group’s interest from their initial intent can follow a flame.
I think you can divide these boards into two categories: Discussion Boards and Propaganda Boards. A discussion board is a place where both sides of an issue(s) can be discussed. A propaganda board is a place where only one side of an issue is welcome. Anyone disagreeing is a flamer. This is a good example of a discussion board. Disagreements are OK. In fact, they're a part of the plan. Propaganda boards include the Canadian Anti-DP site (not finding the bookmark) where you will be banned of you post pro-DP messages. Probably the best example would be the many Indymedia sites such as la.indymedia.org where any views that are not liberal extremist in nature will get you banned from the site and your posts deleted rather immediately. For example, they have an article lamenting the Supreme Court's decision that could return Mumia to death row. Try posting an opposing view and watch your post vanish. If you ask the administrator why your post was taken down you will be informed that you are a flamer. Next time you try to visit la.indymedia.org you'll find that your IP address has been banned. The humorous part is that Indymedia perceives itself as "an open publishing" site So a "flamer" is not the same thing on every board.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 23, 2010 19:32:04 GMT
My take on immigration is that we need some sort of guidelines and a gate keeper. I'm OK with opening the border to people with skills that are needed whether it be a house painter or a computer programmer. I'm not OK with opening the border to deadbeats who would wind up on welfare, criminals, expectant mothers who are just here long enough to have their baby born here making the baby a US Citizen.
I've got reservations about one family member getting in legally and then bringing in his extended family perhaps over time. I do believe we need a much tighter screen on immigrants from Islamic countries than we do on Brits or Swedes.
My biggest worry about immigration is that political correctness will trump common sense. We need to be most worried about those who are most likely to present problems. We don't need to be worried about hurting their feelings because they're minorities or members of a certain religion.
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Post by mouse on Jan 25, 2010 10:10:11 GMT
However, I wonder if you really are a flamer mouse, or if you're just guilty of bad netiquette.
By which I mean, posting without using the quotes properly, poor spelling and grammar, etc. making your posts very difficult to read is very bad netiquette, as you are taking up peoples' time who have to try to interpret your meaning.
Also, putting your views out there in a very confrontational style - like Jumbo - I am right and that's an end of it - is actually really bad manners too on message boards which are meant to be there for people to DISCUSS, to debate points, etc.
well i post as i post as i post...dont like...dont read it...simples as the meercat says nothing confrontational and certainly not any more confrontational than your style... if i say the EU is a totalitarian regime corupt to the core...there is nothing to intrerpretate and surely up to the reader to prove me wrong where as i supose calling the people of europe who were unaware of the EU long term plans ..terminally stupid ...is the height of good manners..nettiquette..... as for poor spelling and grammer..get a grip of yourself..who made you class prefect...gus perhaps let him who is without sin....cast the first stone
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Post by jean on Jan 25, 2010 11:00:43 GMT
In the last 20 years my part of the country has changed from a largely rural environment to one where towns are joining up ribbon fashion. It is in that triangle where the Government had plans to concrete over the country That's an exaggeration I know, but only slightly. In my immediate geographical area there are plans to plonk down 20,000 more houses despite the fact that, for example, the local general hospital is up to capacity and there is minimal room for it to expand. There are no plans for a new hospital. In my part of the country OTOH they are pulling down well-built servicable houses and closing schools. If the government looked outside the South-East occasionally and did not assume that everything of significance had to happen there, things might be a bit different.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 25, 2010 11:37:35 GMT
However, I wonder if you really are a flamer mouse, or if you're just guilty of bad netiquette.
By which I mean, posting without using the quotes properly, poor spelling and grammar, etc. making your posts very difficult to read is very bad netiquette, as you are taking up peoples' time who have to try to interpret your meaning.
Also, putting your views out there in a very confrontational style - like Jumbo - I am right and that's an end of it - is actually really bad manners too on message boards which are meant to be there for people to DISCUSS, to debate points, etc.
well i post as i post as i post...dont like...dont read it...simples as the meercat says nothing confrontational and certainly not any more confrontational than your style... if i say the EU is a totalitarian regime corupt to the core...there is nothing to intrerpretate and surely up to the reader to prove me wrong where as i supose calling the people of europe who were unaware of the EU long term plans ..terminally stupid ...is the height of good manners..nettiquette..... as for poor spelling and grammer..get a grip of yourself..who made you class prefect...gus perhaps let him who is without sin....cast the first stone Hey . . it wasn't me who said you were a flamer. I just provided the definitions. www.albion.com/netiquette/rule5.html
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Post by mouse on Jan 25, 2010 11:43:10 GMT
However, I wonder if you really are a flamer mouse, or if you're just guilty of bad netiquette.
By which I mean, posting without using the quotes properly, poor spelling and grammar, etc. making your posts very difficult to read is very bad netiquette, as you are taking up peoples' time who have to try to interpret your meaning. Also, putting your views out there in a very confrontational style - like Jumbo - I am right and that's an end of it - is actually really bad manners too on message boards which are meant to be there for people to DISCUSS, to debate points, etc
Hey . . it wasn't me who said you were a flamer. I just provided the definitions.""""
and add a two penorth....how ever its monday and my heating is fixed so am in a good mood
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2010 20:06:03 GMT
I'm a little surprised that so many are in favour of letting in "people with jobs and homes to go to". The government has clamped down on giving out work permits to non-Europeans and quite right too... we can't do anything about workers from Europe.
We should allow asylum-seekers, but be a bit better about booting out the failures.... I suppose that is where the "approved countries" come in so I'll go for that.
The other thing no-one has considered is the fate of those who have married or want to marry. My brother married an American woman and they now split their time between the UK ande the States.... ban immigration and you would rule this out.
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