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Post by Big Lin on Jan 12, 2010 18:14:38 GMT
The BNP (British National Party) is the most successful neo-Nazi movement in British history. Even Oswald Mosley (a far more able and intelligent man that Nick Griffin) never managed to return a single member of Parliament and the BNP has two Euro MEPs.
Should we be worried? Is Nasty Nick really going to trudge down our street in his jackboots and cart off your Asian newsagent, your black footballers and your Jewish lawyers?
Or is it all just a protest vote about - well, quite a few things, actually? Like the total disillusionment with the mainstream political parties, the anger against the European Union (well, why not vote UKIP like I do if that's your beef), fear of crime, anger over illegal immigration - what is it that has driven this sudden surge of support for a party with inept leaders and almost NO meaningful policies except immigrant bashing?
Thoughts, anyone?
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 12, 2010 21:07:27 GMT
It's probably the same thing that happened in Germany about 20 years ago when the NPD ( Nationalist Party of Germany ) and the right wing Republicans ( Republikaner ) were being elected to Parlament. Germany's extremely liberal asylum laws were being horribly misused by 3rd world criminals, drug dealers, common criminals, etc.. The great majority of asylum seekers had solely economical motivations in falsely claiming they were being politically persecuted. When the Zentralist CDU ( Christian Democratic Union ) started using tough talk slogans against the criminal misuse of the asylum laws and spoke of deporting criminal foreigners they won back the protest voters and the right wing political parties are getting well under 1% of the vote in Germany now!
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Post by june on Jan 12, 2010 21:30:29 GMT
I think they should be treated as a real threat. With the main UK political parties thrashing for the middle ground there is a real issue about people feeling disenfranchised.
Some genuinely feel under threat from migrants and immigration (fueled by the right wing press and their scare stories) - it's a topic that needs a good debate and some sensible, believable myth busting too.
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Post by mouse on Jan 13, 2010 9:44:40 GMT
its a great deal of every thing you mention immigration[reality rather than right wing myth] crime decent people disenfranchised the eu and its attendent ill politos and their disregard and out right contempt for the wishes of the people
i got a shock the other day when speaking to one of my friends who is actually thinking of giving her vote to the BNP....so that is her and four others i know of who are ""thinking"" of voting BNP not because they are facists but because they are totally sick to the back teeth of what this country has become..
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Jan 13, 2010 10:16:10 GMT
I would have prefered a third voting option that said "a bit of both"
I would have voted BNP in the upcoming GE, because they scare the living crap out of the other parties and they are one of the few weapons that the electorate has to use against the main three parties.
Quite frankly, I have been alienated and disinfranchised by all three of them and I want a way of striking back...unfortunately, Labour MUST be removed before they damage my country any further (if that is possible), so I will vote for the Conservatives later on in the year because it is the only way to kick out the current shower of worthless, treacherous, spineless scum.
AH
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 13, 2010 13:51:56 GMT
Sorry, Alpha. I should have had a third option I suppose.
Sometimes when you're doing these polls you're just focused on one aspect and forget that there are others as well!
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 13, 2010 13:58:51 GMT
From a purely personal point of view I can both understand the appeal of the BNP and I'm also repelled by it.
I know that there is a lot of stuff that goes on in the inner circles of the party that really IS little more than tributes to 'Mein Kampf' and I haven't forgotten how people who believed in that book murdered family members of mine in Auschwitz.
On the other hand, when I lived in London until May last year, if you saw a white person on the street they'd be talking Polish; the Somalis in the area were a BIG problem with their drug-related crimes; immigrants seem to queue jump jobs and housing; and of course it's almost impossible to find a small shop that isn't run by Asians.
I do feel for the indigenous people of the country and worry about what the future holds.
On the other hand, I just can't bring myself to vote for a party where basically the leaders genuinely hate non-whites and I also remember my parents telling me about how Martin Webster, who was deputy leader of the National Front in the 1970s, went to a friend of theirs who was a printer and asked him to print leaflets for the 'Adolf Hitler Fan Club.' The friend refused.
My Mum was also out shopping one day and got caught up in an NF demo. It turned very nasty and violent.
If only the mainstream parties were less untrustworthy!
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Jan 13, 2010 14:21:04 GMT
I think what you will see in the future is the BNP getting a lot of votes in local and Euro elections.
As I said, people need a way to scare the government, and the BNP provide that stick to beat them with.
Every vote for the BNP is just another sign of the government failing to listen to it's people...if we had a government that actually listened to peoples concerns about immigration, multi-culturism and the general feeling of British people feeling like they don't matter, the BNP would be a non-entity...and they certainly wouldn't have councillers or MEPs.
I also suppose that when people see scenes like those islamist scum abusing British soldiers while British police protect them, that also nets a another few thousand votes for the BNP...it's hard not to despise a government/system that allows that. And it's hard not to turn to a party that wouldn't allow that sort of sickening capitulation to aliens abusing our hospitality.
AH
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Post by june on Jan 13, 2010 18:04:23 GMT
Mouse
I think we should have a debate about Immagration in the UK. The myth I mentioned was the old "Immigrants live in 14 bedroomed mansion and live off £300k of tax payers money per hour" type stories you get in the Mail etc.
Just wanted to make clear the myth I was referring to.
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Post by june on Jan 13, 2010 18:07:17 GMT
I think any party would allow that to happen because we are a country that believes in freedom. (and I think it is that which gives us Brits some moral highground) We can't keep invading countries on the premise of bringing them democracy when we operate a police state at home can we?
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Post by Ben Lomond on Jan 13, 2010 18:53:44 GMT
The BNP is a fringe party; and fringe parties never achieve government, but are useful in that they provide a home for a protest vote from time to time. The BNP tries to present itself as a responsible political party, when even the most cursory examination reveals a party of extreme racists who detest blacks, Asians, and any colour other than white. If by chance they ever achieved power it would be an unmitigated disaster.
All fringe parties have a core vote, as they attract those who share their extremism, and who in the case of the BNP do not have the intelligence to perceive the inevitable result of their party coming to power. And their support is derived from a very, very small minority of like minded thugs who make up this core support base. However, the danger arises when the main parties pursue policies which are out of step with mainstream thinking, and when the silent majority (for want of a better expression) consider that their opinions and beliefs are being ignored. This is happening today, and the issue that is the most devisive is undeniably immigration; or the lack of control thereupon.
The working class see their home regions changing out of all recognition on an increasing basis. And, rightly, or wrongly, they generally believe that while some immigration is unavoidable, there must be some control. and some limit to the numbers permitted to settle in the UK. They see large sections of the immigrant communities making little or no attempt to blend in. Rather they see multiculturalism being actively encouraged by the government that they put in place. They increasingly believe that governments, and in particular this Labour administration, has done nothing to reflect their concerns, and has not made any serious attempt to impose the limits that they consider obviously necessary.
And when public opinion is disregarded, and when public opinion has a common concern, and when a fringe party offers a siren call to the discontented that they have the answer; it is then that parties like the BNP increase their support. I only hope that the next administration begins to take on board the concerns of the majority; for if they do NOT, then things can only get a whole lot worse. |The signs are there already!
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Jan 13, 2010 20:46:02 GMT
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Post by june on Jan 13, 2010 22:19:07 GMT
Thanks Ah - proving my point about the myths published by the Hate Mail! ;D Both stories are a load of tosh and if you believe them you'll believe anything!
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Post by jean on Jan 13, 2010 23:16:16 GMT
Anyway, who was it who ensured that there wasn't enough reasonably priced accommodation available when she made councils sell off their housing stock and forbade them to build any more?
(Not a very well phrased poll question, because it's probably both.)
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Post by mouse on Jan 13, 2010 23:18:06 GMT
Mouse I think we should have a debate about Immagration in the UK. The myth I mentioned was the old "Immigrants live in 14 bedroomed mansion and live off £300k of tax payers money per hour" type stories you get in the Mail etc. Just wanted to make clear the myth I was referring to. oh..i hadnt heard that one..unless you mean that chapie in london...and the afghani family some where else..sadly some cases are true...but the majority are not put up in mansions...there are not enough mansions to go round
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Post by mouse on Jan 13, 2010 23:25:29 GMT
Thanks Ah - proving my point about the myths published by the Hate Mail! ;D Both stories are a load of tosh and if you believe them you'll believe anything! why are they a load of tosh ? the afghani plane jackers live quite nicely too...off us...they were never returned whence they came but of course your right we really ought to be having a serious national debate about this and if we live in a democracy then what the people decide about immigration should be the rule for the gov very limmited immigration end all assylum seeking repatriate all who have been refused to stay repatriate all who are here ilegally end all immigration allow some immigration repatriate all those with dual passports recind passports of criminals repatriate all who arived without passports lot to discus...so lets discus
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Post by mouse on Jan 13, 2010 23:35:12 GMT
Posted by jean on Today at 11:16pm Anyway, who was it who ensured that there wasn't enough reasonably priced accommodation available when she made councils sell off their housing stock and forbade them to build any more?
(Not a very well phrased poll question, because it's probably both.)
well in that only sitting tennents could buy..i could see where she was comming from.......what was a bad idea was that those tennents could then sell and did at a proffit..thus depleting the reasonable and afordable the housing stock especially in london
personally the sale of CH its not some thing which i aproved of..council housing is or should be for those WORKERS who cannot aford to rent or buy in the private sector...not a soft option for the idle or immigrant or teen age mothers who wanted to leave home ....council housing and the misuse of council housing is a sad joke
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 13, 2010 23:35:50 GMT
I'm glad this thread is stimulating so much debate and that so far it's all been great quality stuff!
I've already decided on the basis of various comments made by some of our posters to put up a new thread with a poll attached that will have several possible answers you can vote for.
Thanks for all the responses, everyone!
I belong to one forum where the only person who ever posts is the board owner (other than me about half a dozen times and I've given up).
It's the members who keep the forums going and I'm very grateful to you all!
Thanks, people!
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