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Post by Big Lin on Aug 2, 2016 20:51:29 GMT
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 3, 2016 13:58:36 GMT
I scanned the articles you've referenced Lin, and frankly didn't find much meat or merit to them. The examples used were pretty weak Political Correctness and Multiculturalism are definitely left-wing initiatives. They are widely despised by those of us in the middle.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 3, 2016 14:02:32 GMT
I happened to run across some quotes on Islam by Winston Churchill, one of the most admired national leaders of all time. What a great comment.
One can only wish that Obama would have said something like this:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. “The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. “No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”
Winston Churchill
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 3, 2016 21:53:46 GMT
Isn't it funny how a) eager some people are to drag in totally irrelevant stuff into topics that have NOTHING to do with the thread? b) how unwilling some people seem to be to accept that their own thinking could just possibly be biased and dogmatic?
Now I haven't got hardly enough time on my hands at the moment; I posted some quick links.
In the meantime multiculturalism is NOT in any way, shape or form like fundamentalist Islam which is - like the sort of nonsense I have to put up with on some other boards - totally the OPPOSITE.
In multiculturalism you have a patchwork quilt where all the parts cohere into a whole.
In monoculturalism - like fundamentalist Islam or any other kind of extreme viewpoint - you get a machine where all the parts are separate and consequently the machine doesn't work properly.
And political correctness is a tool the right uses all the time - just as the left does.
Frankly when I've got the time I'll write some thoughts of my own.
But in the meantime I'll throw out some quick examples of what I see as right-wing political correctness.
How many American conservatives oppose the death penalty?
How many American conservatives support gay marriage?
How many American conservatives see Islam as a broad movement with lots of different strains, opinions, levels of belief?
How many American conservatives support gun regulation?
How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on terror?'
How many American conservatives are pro-choice on abortion?
How many American conservatives support affirmative action?
How many American conservatives support feminism?
How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on drugs?'
How many American conservatives support prison reform?
How many American conservatives oppose teaching 'creation science' in schools?
How many American conservatives oppose the illegal detentions at Guantanamo Bay?
How many American conservatives regard the use of torture as indefensible?
Those will do for starters.
Now as it happens on some of those issues I take what might be considered the conservative viewpoint and on some I take the opposite one.
But that's because I'm NOT politically correct - in a left or right wing way.
Unfortunately I find that nearly all American conservatives ARE 'politically correct' in a right-wing way.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 4, 2016 0:10:09 GMT
Isn't it funny how a) eager some people are to drag in totally irrelevant stuff into topics that have NOTHING to do with the thread? b) how unwilling some people seem to be to accept that their own thinking could just possibly be biased and dogmatic? Now I haven't got hardly enough time on my hands at the moment; I posted some quick links. In the meantime multiculturalism is NOT in any way, shape or form like fundamentalist Islam which is - like the sort of nonsense I have to put up with on some other boards - totally the OPPOSITE. In multiculturalism you have a patchwork quilt where all the parts cohere into a whole. In monoculturalism - like fundamentalist Islam or any other kind of extreme viewpoint - you get a machine where all the parts are separate and consequently the machine doesn't work properly. And political correctness is a tool the right uses all the time - just as the left does. Frankly when I've got the time I'll write some thoughts of my own. But in the meantime I'll throw out some quick examples of what I see as right-wing political correctness. How many American conservatives oppose the death penalty? How many American conservatives support gay marriage? How many American conservatives see Islam as a broad movement with lots of different strains, opinions, levels of belief? How many American conservatives support gun regulation? How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on terror?' How many American conservatives are pro-choice on abortion? How many American conservatives support affirmative action? How many American conservatives support feminism? How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on drugs?' How many American conservatives support prison reform? How many American conservatives oppose teaching 'creation science' in schools? How many American conservatives oppose the illegal detentions at Guantanamo Bay? How many American conservatives regard the use of torture as indefensible? Those will do for starters. Now as it happens on some of those issues I take what might be considered the conservative viewpoint and on some I take the opposite one. But that's because I'm NOT politically correct - in a left or right wing way. Unfortunately I find that nearly all American conservatives ARE 'politically correct' in a right-wing way. Hi Lin I'm an American conservative and am pleased to give my own stance on the issues you've raised here. How many American conservatives oppose the death penalty? I'm STRONGLY in favor of the death penalty, administered sooner rather than later! How many American conservatives support gay marriage? I have no objection to gay marriage. How many American conservatives see Islam as a broad movement with lots of different strains, opinions, levels of belief? I see Islam as a completely bogus religion that has a lot more negatives than positives. Would our world be better off without Islam? My answer is most definitely yes. Incidentally, I'm also in favor of getting rid of Judaism, Christianity, and all other religions which are all 100% bogus. Though I hold all religions in low regard, I do think Islam is the worst because it is more of a cancerous political movement than a religion. The positives are almost impossible to find whereas the negatives are extensive and overwhelming. How many American conservatives support gun regulation? I'm in favor of gun regulation. I think there are some valid arguments for owning guns for self protection but they tend to be cancelled out because easy availability of guns leads to disastrous incidents. How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on terror?' I'm 1000% in favor of the war on terror. GW Bush is my hero along with Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld. How many American conservatives are pro-choice on abortion? I'm pro choice on abortion but happy that we didn't abort my son who now has presented us with two lovely grand children How many American conservatives support affirmative action? I strongly oppose affirmative action which is nothing more than government supported racial prejudice. How many American conservatives support feminism? What do you mean by feminism? I don't know what that is. If you mean equal pay for equal jobs, then yes, I'm a feminist. How many American conservatives oppose 'the war on drugs?' I'm in favor of shooting drug dealers on sight and/or giving them rewards for turning in their supplier. I think legalizing drugs is the dumbest idea ever. How many American conservatives support prison reform? I'm in favor of crime reduction by keeping repeat criminals off the streets. How many American conservatives oppose teaching 'creation science' in schools? Calling it science is a bit of a stretch. We really don't have a good understanding of creation. I'm in favor of teaching all theories and emphasizing that these are just theories. How many American conservatives oppose the illegal detentions at Guantanamo Bay? I STRONGLY oppose the release of terrorists from Guantanamo Bay. if I were running the show they'd be there for the duration. How many American conservatives regard the use of torture as indefensible? I don't consider waterboarding, sleep deprivation, 24hour loud music, etc. to be torture and I approve of those proven methods which have yielded important intelligence information. . Torture is cutting off one finger at a time untilhe prisoner talks. Torture is putting out one eye with a hot poker and then asking the prisoner if he wants to keep the other eye. That's what torture is and so I'm opposed to torture What is the point of reforming a religion that breeds ignorance, stupidity, violence, insanity, and oppresses their followers fearing for their life if they step out of line. Such a religion needs to be wiped from the face of the planet. The West needs to lead the way. Declare Islam as a terrorist organisation. Pull down the mosques, Close the schools, and deport the fanatics that do not wish to let go of this barbaric crime against humanity that is called Islam
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 4, 2016 20:55:33 GMT
In essence, on 90% of the issues I've highlighted you follow the party line.
You see, you ARE following the politically correct path for right-wingers on nearly every issue.
Perhaps you need to examine your belief system and query whether or not you have allowed yourself to be brainwashed by right-wing politically correct nutjobs.
Just as the left is by left-wing political correct nutjobs.
The rational thing is to oppose BOTH types of stupidity.
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 4, 2016 21:04:04 GMT
And on your last point I'd say it's irresistibly Stalinist and totally 1984, authoritarian, punishing people for 'thought crime'
Now that is typical of conservative thinking just as it is of left-wing thinking.
It just goes to show how much both of them - conservatives and leftists - despise, fear and hate freedom.
Both are mired in their own brainwashed versions of political correctness and want to oppress everybody.
Only the much despised liberals truly value freedom, tolerance and fairness.
Conservatives and leftists only want to inflict their views on everybody else regardless of their wishes.
A plague on both their authoritarian houses!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 5, 2016 18:24:19 GMT
Big Lin your insistance on using the word "liberal" to describe your position just gets you stuck on a slippery slope. Who is someone "more liberal" than you? Obviously someone more to the left. Who is someone too "liberal"? Someone who has no sense of boundaries.
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 5, 2016 22:00:20 GMT
Big Lin your insistance on using the word "liberal" to describe your position just gets you stuck on a slippery slope. Who is someone "more liberal" than you? Obviously someone more to the left. Who is someone too "liberal"? Someone who has no sense of boundaries.
Utter rubbish. Apart from the fact that Americans misuse the word liberal in a way that no other country does (just as they do with football), I think there are degrees of any belief system. Liberalism has NOTHING to do with 'left' or 'right;' there are conservative liberals just as there are moderate ones and left-wing ones. Who is someone 'too conservative?' Someone who fears change, dissent and freedom. Now unlike you I don't think ideologies are tick-box belief systems where you have to swallow the whole package. It's about fundamental PRINCIPLES. And the fundamental PRINCIPLES of liberalism are based on freedom, tolerance, fairness and compassion. Just as the fundamental PRINCIPLES of conservatism are based on respect for authority, trying to achieve at least a consensus if not possibly enforcing a general point of view, maintaining the privileged position of the ruling classes and regarding compassion as an occasional luxury. Now I am NOT and never HAVE been any kind of a socialist or communist; I am totally committed to a genuinely free economic system (which is as incompatible with capitalism and its innate desire for oligopoloy and monopoly as it is with socialism). So don't try and tell me that I can't call myself a proud liberal. I don't have a problem with people calling themselves conservatives, socialists or whatever. But I DO have a problem with authoritarianism, with prejudice, intolerance, unfairness and so on. And I see that displayed all the time by conservatives and socialists who do NOT share the fundamental liberal values. It's perfectly possible to be liberal and a conservative. It really is. Now why don't you at least try to consider that just maybe you have been brainwashed by the politically correct right-wingers into believing that something that's NOT the case IS the case?
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 5, 2016 22:38:17 GMT
Big Lin your insistance on using the word "liberal" to describe your position just gets you stuck on a slippery slope. Who is someone "more liberal" than you? Obviously someone more to the left. Who is someone too "liberal"? Someone who has no sense of boundaries.
Utter rubbish. Apart from the fact that Americans misuse the word liberal in a way that no other country does (just as they do with football), I think there are degrees of any belief system. Liberalism has NOTHING to do with 'left' or 'right;' there are conservative liberals just as there are moderate ones and left-wing ones. Who is someone 'too conservative?' Someone who fears change, dissent and freedom. Now unlike you I don't think ideologies are tick-box belief systems where you have to swallow the whole package. It's about fundamental PRINCIPLES. And the fundamental PRINCIPLES of liberalism are based on freedom, tolerance, fairness and compassion. Just as the fundamental PRINCIPLES of conservatism are based on respect for authority, trying to achieve at least a consensus if not possibly enforcing a general point of view, maintaining the privileged position of the ruling classes and regarding compassion as an occasional luxury. Now I am NOT and never HAVE been any kind of a socialist or communist; I am totally committed to a genuinely free economic system (which is as incompatible with capitalism and its innate desire for oligopoloy and monopoly as it is with socialism). So don't try and tell me that I can't call myself a proud liberal. I don't have a problem with people calling themselves conservatives, socialists or whatever. But I DO have a problem with authoritarianism, with prejudice, intolerance, unfairness and so on. And I see that displayed all the time by conservatives and socialists who do NOT share the fundamental liberal values. It's perfectly possible to be liberal and a conservative. It really is. Now why don't you at least try to consider that just maybe you have been brainwashed by the politically correct right-wingers into believing that something that's NOT the case IS the case? There is a problem with labels like Liberal and Conservative Lin. For instance, when I tell people I am a conservative, some of them assume that I'm a bible belt Christian, a gun nut, an anti-abortion crusader, and a Ted Cruz supporter. I am none of those. Similarly, when you say you are a liberal, many will assume that you're a socialist in favor of income and wealth redistribution by government; someone who lauds the welfare state; a person who thinks Sweden is on the right path with their open borders; an anti-war activist who would rather fold than fight; and someone who wants to punish success and applaud failure.
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 6, 2016 22:57:48 GMT
Utter rubbish. Apart from the fact that Americans misuse the word liberal in a way that no other country does (just as they do with football), I think there are degrees of any belief system. Liberalism has NOTHING to do with 'left' or 'right;' there are conservative liberals just as there are moderate ones and left-wing ones. Who is someone 'too conservative?' Someone who fears change, dissent and freedom. Now unlike you I don't think ideologies are tick-box belief systems where you have to swallow the whole package. It's about fundamental PRINCIPLES. And the fundamental PRINCIPLES of liberalism are based on freedom, tolerance, fairness and compassion. Just as the fundamental PRINCIPLES of conservatism are based on respect for authority, trying to achieve at least a consensus if not possibly enforcing a general point of view, maintaining the privileged position of the ruling classes and regarding compassion as an occasional luxury. Now I am NOT and never HAVE been any kind of a socialist or communist; I am totally committed to a genuinely free economic system (which is as incompatible with capitalism and its innate desire for oligopoloy and monopoly as it is with socialism). So don't try and tell me that I can't call myself a proud liberal. I don't have a problem with people calling themselves conservatives, socialists or whatever. But I DO have a problem with authoritarianism, with prejudice, intolerance, unfairness and so on. And I see that displayed all the time by conservatives and socialists who do NOT share the fundamental liberal values. It's perfectly possible to be liberal and a conservative. It really is. Now why don't you at least try to consider that just maybe you have been brainwashed by the politically correct right-wingers into believing that something that's NOT the case IS the case? There is a problem with labels like Liberal and Conservative Lin. For instance, when I tell people I am a conservative, some of them assume that I'm a bible belt Christian, a gun nut, an anti-abortion crusader, and a Ted Cruz supporter. I am none of those. Similarly, when you say you are a liberal, many will assume that you're a socialist in favor of income and wealth redistribution by government; someone who lauds the welfare state; a person who thinks Sweden is on the right path with their open borders; an anti-war activist who would rather fold than fight; and someone who wants to punish success and applaud failure. I agree absolutely that - particularly in the US - labels like liberal and conservative are totally misused. For what it's worth on some of the fundo Christian type forums I occasionally visit I'm a puzzle. Some of them are convinced I'm a Communist and a Satanist. Others are equally convinced that I'm a conservative. That's because my views on issues are varied; just as yours are.
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