♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 28, 2010 3:25:10 GMT
Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been pursuing a master's degree in school counseling at Augusta State University since last year, but school officials have informed her that she'll be dismissed from the program unless she alters her "central religious beliefs on human nature and conduct," according to a civil complaint filed last week. www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/27/georgia-university-tells-student-lose-religion-lawsuit-claims/ QUOTE: - July 27, 2010 Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be DismissedA graduate student in Georgia is suing her university after she was told she must undergo a remediation program due to her beliefs on homosexuality and transgendered persons. The student, Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been pursuing a master's degree in school counseling at Augusta State University since 2009, but school officials have informed her that she'll be dismissed from the program unless she alters her "central religious beliefs on human nature and conduct," according to a civil complaint filed last week. "[Augusta State University] faculty have promised to expel Miss Keeton from the graduate Counselor Education Program not because of poor academic showing or demonstrated deficiencies in clinical performance, but simply because she has communicated both inside and outside the classroom that she holds to Christian ethical convictions on matters of human sexuality and gender identity," the 43-page lawsuit reads. Keeton, according to the lawsuit, was informed by school officials in late May that she would be asked to take part in a remediation plan due to faculty concerns regarding her beliefs pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues. "The faculty identifies Miss Keeton's views as indicative of her improper professional disposition to persons of such populations," the lawsuit reads. In a statement to FoxNews.com, Augusta State University officials declined to comment specifically on the litigation, but said the university does not discriminate on the basis of students' moral, religious, political or personal views or beliefs. "The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics." The Code of Ethics prohibits counselors from discriminating based on a number of factors, including gender identity and sexual orientation. "Counselors do not discriminate against clients, students, employees, supervisees, or research participants in a manner that has a negative impact on these persons," the code says. Keeton's lawsuit alleges that the university's remediation plan noted Keeton's "disagreement in several class discussions and in written assignments with the gay and lesbian 'lifestyle,'" as well as Keeton's belief that those "lifestyles" are cases of identity confusion. If Keeton fails to complete the plan, including additional reading and the writing of papers describing the impact on her beliefs, she will be expelled from the Counselor Education Program, the lawsuit claims. Keeton has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the "result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces," according to the suit. "She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created," the lawsuit reads. "Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'" David French, senior counsel at the Alliance Defense Fund, which filed the lawsuit against Augusta State University on Keeton's behalf, said no university has the right to force a citizen to change their beliefs on any topic. "The university has told Jennifer Keeton that if she doesn't change her beliefs, she can't stay in the program," he told FoxNews.com. "She won't even have a chance to counsel any students; she won't have a chance to get a counseling degree; she'll be expelled." Keeton, who is not available for interviews according to French, believes that people have "moral choices" regarding their sexuality, he said. "A student has a right to express their point of view in and out of class without fear or censorship or expulsion," French said.
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Post by mouse on Jul 28, 2010 7:18:35 GMT
"She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created," the lawsuit reads. "Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"
this is the state we have arrived at...where there is no freedom to apose the ""thinking"" of the day i would have thought that gender was fixed at birth...sexuality being a different matter macarthyism is alive and well....
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 28, 2010 9:54:26 GMT
"She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created," the lawsuit reads. "Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'" this is the state we have arrived at...where there is no freedom to apose the ""thinking"" of the day i would have thought that gender was fixed at birth...sexuality being a different matter macarthyism is alive and well.... Bullshit. She is studying to be a school counsellor (if I understand the story correctly). As such, she would be in a position where she would be expected to support vulnerable young people, including those struggling with their sexuality and the like. Obviously some dumb-ass bigot like her is not suitable for a job like that.
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Post by mouse on Jul 28, 2010 10:57:23 GMT
"""A student has a right to express their point of view in and out of class without fear or censorship or expulsion," French said. """
i thoughly agree that she has the right to express and hold any opinion.
it is up to whom ever she applys to for a job to acertain whether she is up to the job or should be given or should even have considered school counceling is another matter entirely she should be free to hold any opinion she desires..just as any futire employers are free to employ or reject her because of the veiws she holds her work apears to be up to scratch...and they are not saying she has arguments with her tutors etc ""not because of poor academic showing or demonstrated deficiencies in clinical performance,"" ""
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 11:02:48 GMT
We all have our prejudices; every single one of us. What we must not do is allow these to colour our judgments when communicating with people in our jobs.
The first step in dealing with our prejudices is to regonise them, and this woman has at least done this - althugh "prejudice" is probably not the word she would use to describe her beliefs. After that it is up to her to ensure that she complies with whatever standards her employer and her profession lays down.
It is a pity that she didn't agree to go on the course she was offered; perhaps that would have found a way of reconcling her beliefs with her work.
On the other hand, I'm not at all sure I' want to go on anything described as a " remediation plan". I would instantly suspect that anything so-titled would be a load of the obvious entangled in yards of verbiage.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 28, 2010 12:10:13 GMT
I'm sure there are lots of people whose private opinions and bigotry would disqualify them from their professions if they spoke openly about them; certainly our good friend the child protection social worker who regularly describes the families he works with as 'scum' who should be sterilised is one of them!
But he makes these remarks in private.
This girl, by seeking out publicity for herself like this, has rendered herself unfit for the job she was supposedly training for.
There is a pathetic streak among the socially conservative here and in the USA where they seek to depict themselves constantly as martyrs, somehow oppressed by 'political correctness' or some other such nonsense. They are the other side of the coin of those black people who constantly cry 'racism' every time they don't get their own way.
If this silly girl had kept her private views private, then this would not have happened but no, she has to try to post herself as a Christian martyr.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 12:17:43 GMT
Her brand of Chritianity though! There are many devout believers who wouldn't share her views.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 28, 2010 14:14:49 GMT
Whatever your attitudes on same-sex relationships, this is nothing more than a modern-day version of the Salem Witch Hunts.
I'm fully in support of Jennifer even though I'm personally relaxed about same-sex couples.
The uni has NO right taking the position they are and I hope she blasts them into orbit for their narrow-minded stupidity!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 15:10:35 GMT
Lin, I suppose it depends whether her beliefs make it impossible to do the job she is being trained for. The case might hang on that, and could make interesting reading.
After all, if I was studying for ordination and announced that I didn't believe in God, would it be narrow minded and stupid for the divinity college to tell me to take a hike ?
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Post by june on Jul 28, 2010 17:23:56 GMT
I'm sure there are lots of people whose private opinions and bigotry would disqualify them from their professions if they spoke openly about them; certainly our good friend the child protection social worker who regularly describes the families he works with as 'scum' who should be sterilised is one of them! But he makes these remarks in private. This girl, by seeking out publicity for herself like this, has rendered herself unfit for the job she was supposedly training for. There is a pathetic streak among the socially conservative here and in the USA where they seek to depict themselves constantly as martyrs, somehow oppressed by 'political correctness' or some other such nonsense. They are the other side of the coin of those black people who constantly cry 'racism' every time they don't get their own way. If this silly girl had kept her private views private, then this would not have happened but no, she has to try to post herself as a Christian martyr. I agree
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Post by Synonym on Jul 28, 2010 18:14:11 GMT
Lin, I suppose it depends whether her beliefs make it impossible to do the job she is being trained for. The case might hang on that, and could make interesting reading. After all, if I was studying for ordination and announced that I didn't believe in God, would it be narrow minded and stupid for the divinity college to tell me to take a hike ? I broadly agree with you but believing in God would be an unarguable prerequisite for a religious position, yet it is possible that one could be a 'niche' counsellor where they only deal with certain situations and others get handed to another member of staff? Obviously many schools would only want to employ one councillor, and so by being a 'niche' councillor she will be cutting herself off from employment opportunities, but isn't that a matter for her to worry about not the university.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 18:35:19 GMT
Not only that, Octopus, but what if, part way through counselling, a student confides that they think they may be gay. Does their response depend on whether their counsellor does or does not believe that homosexuality is a matter of choice?
However, there must be many people of many religions (Sikhs, Muslims, perhaps Jews) who share this belief. I wonder if they find a way of dealing with it so they can offer their clients the same support they would get from anyone else... I'd be interested to know what the solution is!
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Post by june on Jul 28, 2010 19:57:22 GMT
There is also an issue of assessment - how can the university assess if this woman has passed, if her responses go against the now accepted normal response.
'Miss, I think I might be gay'
'You will burn for all eternity in the fires of hell, Beelzebub is within you. The power of Christ compels you, the power of Christ compels you...'
is probably a fail
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2010 22:23:39 GMT
There is also an issue of assessment - how can the university assess if this woman has passed, if her responses go against the now accepted normal response. 'Miss, I think I might be gay' 'You will burn for all eternity in the fires of hell, Beelzebub is within you. The power of Christ compels you, the power of Christ compels you...' is probably a fail A bright kid should surely be able to find a way round this that satisfies the college and appeases her own conscience. We all have to do things at work we feel uncomfortable about - at least, I have, in just about every job I've had! We do it because it is what we get paid for. No-one should be forcing her to change her beliefs, but if she can't toe the line and put them aside when she's at work - at least so far as it is necessary for the job - she should think about a career move!
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Post by beez0811 on Jul 28, 2010 22:36:08 GMT
Whatever your attitudes on same-sex relationships, this is nothing more than a modern-day version of the Salem Witch Hunts. I'm fully in support of Jennifer even though I'm personally relaxed about same-sex couples. The uni has NO right taking the position they are and I hope she blasts them into orbit for their narrow-minded stupidity! I agree! Jennifer still believes all that jazz, but she'd probably set her views aside if she is working at a school. Many Christians might not believe in same-sex relationships or gender changes, but they'll still be kind to those that take part since God loves all. Not every Christian is one of those crazies from Westboro Baptist Church and the like. I'm not.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 28, 2010 23:08:41 GMT
I agree that Miss Keeton shouldn't face job discrimination because of her views! Any "gay", who feels threatened by her religious views is truly insecure or bigoted and should admit it!
I feel too that students should have more options in choosing their counselors! When I attended a US highschool the same counselors were assigned automatically for students having last names in a certain segment of the alphabet. Unfortunately me and my siblings all had a last name with a letter that assigned us a drunken dead beat counselor with absolutely no ideas or inspiration. He just rambled on with his boozer breath with some monotone text and often read out of books booring us silly! He was known to show up at adult parties and go straight for the booze, until he was a zombie.
It's shocking that a dead beat alcoholic could keep his job and a person with convictions that may offend certain insecure people or the PC police is persecuted!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 29, 2010 0:13:35 GMT
Julea Ward faced the same discrimination in Michigan for her views of homosexuality and a federal judge supported her dismissal! www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/28/court-university-expel-student-opposes-homosexuality/?test=latestnews QUOTE: July 28, 2010 Court Upholds Expulsion of Counseling Student Who Opposes HomosexualityA federal judge has ruled in favor of a public university that removed a Christian student from its graduate program in school counseling over her belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views. A federal judge has ruled in favor of a public university that removed a Christian student from its graduate program in school counseling over her belief that homosexuality is morally wrong. Monday's ruling, according to Julea Ward's attorneys, could result in Christian students across the country being expelled from public university for similar views. “It’s a very dangerous precedent,” Jeremy Tedesco, legal counsel for the conservative Alliance Defense Fund, told FOX News Radio. “The ruling doesn’t say that explicitly, but that’s what is going to happen.” U.S. District Judge George Caram Steeh dismissed Ward’s lawsuit against Eastern Michigan University. She was removed from the school’s counseling program last year because she refused to counsel homosexual clients. The university contended she violated school policy and the American Counseling Association code of ethics. “Christian students shouldn’t be expelled for holding to and abiding by their beliefs,” said ADF senior counsel David French. “To reach its decision, the court had to do something that’s never been done in federal court: uphold an extremely broad and vague university speech code.” Eastern Michigan University hailed the decision. “We are pleased that the court has upheld our position in this matter,” EMU spokesman Walter Kraft said in a written statement. “Julea Ward was not discriminated against because of her religion. To the contrary, Eastern Michigan is deeply committed to the education of our students and welcomes individuals from diverse backgrounds into our community.” In his 48-page opinion, Judge Steeh said the university had a rational basis for adopting the ACA Code of Ethics. “Furthermore, the university had a rational basis for requiring students to counsel clients without imposing their personal values,” he wrote in a portion of his ruling posted by The Detroit News. “In the case of Ms. Ward, the university determined that she would never change her behavior and would consistently refuse to counsel clients on matters with which she was personally opposed due to her religious beliefs – including homosexual relationships.” Ward’s attorneys claim the university told her she would only be allowed to remain in the program if she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality. The case is similar to a lawsuit the ADF filed against Augusta State University in Georgia. Counseling student Jennifer Keeton was allegedly told to stop sharing her Christian beliefs in order to graduate. Keeton's lawsuit alleged that she was told to undergo a reeducation program and attend “diversity sensitivity training.” University officials declined to comment on specifics of the lawsuit but released a statement to FOX News that said Augusta State does not discriminate on the basis of students’ moral, religious, political or personal beliefs. Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities. “Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.” The Alliance Defense Fund told FOX News it will appeal the ruling.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2010 5:20:25 GMT
I agree that Miss Keeton shouldn't face job discrimination because of her views! Any "gay", who feels threatened by her religious views is truly insecure or bigoted and should admit it!
Anna, you are talking about a counselor, not a dinner lady. Suppose a teenage girl had just found out she was pregnant and sought her out for support, only to be given a lecture about the evils of sex outside marriage? From the rest of your post, it sounds as if every schoolchild has a counsellor; something that doesn't happen (to the best of my knowledge) in the UK. So the job is a bit of a mystery to me; what exactly does a counselor do?
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 29, 2010 7:15:40 GMT
I agree that Miss Keeton shouldn't face job discrimination because of her views! Any "gay", who feels threatened by her religious views is truly insecure or bigoted and should admit it!
I feel too that students should have more options in choosing their counselors! When I attended a US highschool the same counselors were assigned automatically for students having last names in a certain segment of the alphabet. Unfortunately me and my siblings all had a last name with a letter that assigned us a drunken dead beat counselor with absolutely no ideas or inspiration. He just rambled on with his boozer breath with some monotone text and often read out of books booring us silly! He was known to show up at adult parties and go straight for the booze, until he was a zombie.
It's shocking that a dead beat alcoholic could keep his job and a person with convictions that may offend certain insecure people or the PC police is persecuted! This is quite a disgusting and twisted post. Why have you put quotation marks round the word gay? Do you deny that gay people exist? It's very clear that she does not face discrimination because of her views. She is not suitable for the job because she insists on imposing her views on her professional practice. It disgusts me that certain people - conservative Christians and Muslims mostly - insist over and over again that their personal views should be allowed to dictate how they do their jobs.
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Post by mouse on Jul 29, 2010 8:07:56 GMT
I'm sure there are lots of people whose private opinions and bigotry would disqualify them from their professions if they spoke openly about them; certainly our good friend the child protection social worker who regularly describes the families he works with as 'scum' who should be sterilised is one of them! But he makes these remarks in private. which raises several points does this make him unfit for his job is he able to carry out his work unbiasedly does this make him a hypocrite i know a housing officer who wouldnt give half the people who come to her a cardboard box... but as long as they tick the right boxes and prate the mantra of the day every thing on the surface is wonderful and as long as they dont rock the boat they will not have to be shown """"the error of their ways""" do we have to encourage this hypocracy of saying one thing in public and another in private what is wrong with anyone actually being honest and saying i have a different veiw ...having a different take on things should not be an excuse for others to conduct a wich hunt as long as those with veiws are not activly hurting or suporting hurting anyone and who is the absolute authority on ERROR thinking """she went through a “remediation” program so that she could “see the error of her ways” and change her belief system about homosexuality""".
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