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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 24, 2009 13:03:39 GMT
Lin sez: We all have our pet hates. I've been accused of being obsessed with hatred of the Clintons and there's some truth in that claim. Lin, I'm curious, why do you hate the Clintons? They've never been my favorite politicians, but I do think there was an aggressive republican campaign to wipe them out from '94 on. That, alone, made me a bit more sympathetic . . . . well, that and the relative peace and prosperity. the ONLY thing that bill did wrong was to support nafta. actually, it wasn't cool having monica pretending she had a cigar, but, that had no relation to his governance of the country
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Post by beth on Jan 24, 2009 17:09:56 GMT
Lin sez: We all have our pet hates. I've been accused of being obsessed with hatred of the Clintons and there's some truth in that claim. Lin, I'm curious, why do you hate the Clintons? They've never been my favorite politicians, but I do think there was an aggressive republican campaign to wipe them out from '94 on. That, alone, made me a bit more sympathetic . . . . well, that and the relative peace and prosperity. the ONLY thing that bill did wrong was to support nafta. actually, it wasn't cool having monica pretending she had a cigar, but, that had no relation to his governance of the country I agree, Jim. No qualifying, just - what you said.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 24, 2009 18:17:53 GMT
So what was the alternative, Jim? We HAD to ally with Stalin to beat Hitler - or should we just have let him walk all over us. well, if chamberlain whispered in adolf's ear that he should wait until spring to invade russia, the soviet union would have ceased to exist. as it was, hitler had spread the german army so thin, russia, africa, everywhere else, that we would still have kicked his azz, and wallah, no soviet union or cold war, or nazis. It was hard enough winning the war WITH the help of the Soviet Union. It would have been almost IMPOSSIBLE without it. Do you seriously think Churchill or Roosevelt were under any illusions about Stalin? As a matter of historical record, Chamberlain was such a moron that when Stalin invaded Finland - and made such a mess of it that he nearly lost - Chamberlain actually wanted Britain to declare WAR on Russia! Churchill threatened to resign if he did that which was the only thing that brought the moron to his senses. We had NO alternative once we were AT war. That's the simple reality, Jim. If Chamberlain had followed your strategy Hitler would have died in his bed and the Axis powers would have won the war.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 24, 2009 18:22:01 GMT
There are so many things that Bill Clinton did wrong it's hard to know where to start - or stop - but I'd like to make it plain that I'm on the political LEFT so my criticisms of him are perhaps rather different from those you'd hear from the average Neanderthal neo-con type.
Let's see -
the three strikes law
the relentless assault on civil liberties
the incessant use of no knock laws
the corrupt Southern Bourbon cronyism
Whitewater
NAFTA
Waco
Ruby Ridge
the war of aggression against Yugoslavia
the war of aggression (which he didn't even WIN) against Somalia
the war of aggression (which AGAIN he didn't even WIN) against Haiti
his support for the IRA (till eventually his eyes were opened by Tony Blair of ALL people)
I could go on and on but that will do for starters.
The guy is an evil, dishonest, corrupt and neo-fascist slob.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 24, 2009 18:23:32 GMT
well, if chamberlain whispered in adolf's ear that he should wait until spring to invade russia, the soviet union would have ceased to exist. as it was, hitler had spread the german army so thin, russia, africa, everywhere else, that we would still have kicked his azz, and wallah, no soviet union or cold war, or nazis. It was hard enough winning the war WITH the help of the Soviet Union. It would have been almost IMPOSSIBLE without it. Do you seriously think Churchill or Roosevelt were under any illusions about Stalin? As a matter of historical record, Chamberlain was such a moron that when Stalin invaded Finland - and made such a mess of it that he nearly lost - Chamberlain actually wanted Britain to declare WAR on Russia! Churchill threatened to resign if he did that which was the only thing that brought the moron to his senses. We had NO alternative once we were AT war. That's the simple reality, Jim. If Chamberlain had followed your strategy Hitler would have died in his bed and the Axis powers would have won the war. nope. hitler would have taken over russia, but in doing so, it would have required several divisions to remain there just to hold it. it would have been much easier to od adolf, and not have the soviets to deal with
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 24, 2009 18:24:47 GMT
the ONLY thing that bill did wrong was to support nafta. actually, it wasn't cool having monica pretending she had a cigar, but, that had no relation to his governance of the country I agree, Jim. No qualifying, just - what you said. i try not to be TOO graphic lest some little old lady have a light come on when she realizes what i said, and freak
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 24, 2009 18:26:06 GMT
The Yanks didn't exactly make that good a fist of it before Midway; Besides which, if Britain had fallen, the Empire would have gone too and you would have stood alone.
One of the facts about US history which Americans conveniently forget is that they've only WON two wars without outside help - the war against Mexico and the war against Spain. Neither country was exactly a major power.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 24, 2009 18:29:51 GMT
I agree, Jim. No qualifying, just - what you said. i try not to be TOO graphic lest some little old lady have a light come on when she realizes what i said, and freak I imagine most of the ladies on this board are relatively familiar with the story of Bill and his 'close - but no cigar.'
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 25, 2009 13:18:03 GMT
The Yanks didn't exactly make that good a fist of it before Midway; Besides which, if Britain had fallen, the Empire would have gone too and you would have stood alone. One of the facts about US history which Americans conveniently forget is that they've only WON two wars without outside help - the war against Mexico and the war against Spain. Neither country was exactly a major power. of course, had britain gone down, it would have been a rough row to hoe, but, britain wasn't going down. there was no possibility of adolf trying to invade britain in the middle of his other woes. the v-2s were a major annoyance, but certainly were not going to conquer england. dunkirk was an anomoly. you do seem to forget that the u.s. won the war of northern aggression without outside help, and once again, against the brits. that was unfortunate, but does make three wars.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 25, 2009 13:19:07 GMT
i try not to be TOO graphic lest some little old lady have a light come on when she realizes what i said, and freak I imagine most of the ladies on this board are relatively familiar with the story of Bill and his 'close - but no cigar.' that's true enough, but, any excuse is better than none at all
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Post by chefmate51 on Jan 25, 2009 15:13:44 GMT
There are so many things that Bill Clinton did wrong it's hard to know where to start - or stop - but I'd like to make it plain that I'm on the political LEFT so my criticisms of him are perhaps rather different from those you'd hear from the average Neanderthal neo-con type. Let's see - the three strikes law the relentless assault on civil liberties the incessant use of no knock laws the corrupt Southern Bourbon cronyism Whitewater NAFTA Waco Ruby Ridge the war of aggression against Yugoslavia the war of aggression (which he didn't even WIN) against Somalia the war of aggression (which AGAIN he didn't even WIN) against Haiti his support for the IRA (till eventually his eyes were opened by Tony Blair of ALL people) I could go on and on but that will do for starters. The guy is an evil, dishonest, corrupt and neo-fascist slob. and now we get his wife as our Secretary of State
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Post by riotgrrl on Jan 25, 2009 15:50:27 GMT
The Yanks didn't exactly make that good a fist of it before Midway; Besides which, if Britain had fallen, the Empire would have gone too and you would have stood alone. One of the facts about US history which Americans conveniently forget is that they've only WON two wars without outside help - the war against Mexico and the war against Spain. Neither country was exactly a major power. of course, had britain gone down, it would have been a rough row to hoe, but, britain wasn't going down. there was no possibility of adolf trying to invade britain in the middle of his other woes. the v-2s were a major annoyance, but certainly were not going to conquer england. dunkirk was an anomoly. you do seem to forget that the u.s. won the war of northern aggression without outside help, and once again, against the brits. that was unfortunate, but does make three wars. I am confused by your historical analysis. You seem to be under the impression that 'England' and 'Britain' are interchangeable.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 25, 2009 16:30:11 GMT
From Hitler's point of view, they were!
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 25, 2009 17:01:50 GMT
The Yanks didn't exactly make that good a fist of it before Midway; Besides which, if Britain had fallen, the Empire would have gone too and you would have stood alone. One of the facts about US history which Americans conveniently forget is that they've only WON two wars without outside help - the war against Mexico and the war against Spain. Neither country was exactly a major power. of course, had britain gone down, it would have been a rough row to hoe, but, britain wasn't going down. there was no possibility of adolf trying to invade britain in the middle of his other woes. the v-2s were a major annoyance, but certainly were not going to conquer england. dunkirk was an anomoly. you do seem to forget that the u.s. won the war of northern aggression without outside help, and once again, against the brits. that was unfortunate, but does make three wars. Your last sentence is a bit confusing. I can assure you that Britain was NOT involved in the Civil War. You were allied with France, Spain and Holland during the War of Independence. As for the 1812-1815 war, you LOST that one. Ask a Canadian if you don't believe me. You one a single battle but lost all the others and lost the war. In any case Britain was much busier fighting Napoleon at the time because if we'd sent Wellington over you'd have surrendered in 5 minutes!
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Post by iamjumbo on Jan 25, 2009 18:33:56 GMT
of course, had britain gone down, it would have been a rough row to hoe, but, britain wasn't going down. there was no possibility of adolf trying to invade britain in the middle of his other woes. the v-2s were a major annoyance, but certainly were not going to conquer england. dunkirk was an anomoly. you do seem to forget that the u.s. won the war of northern aggression without outside help, and once again, against the brits. that was unfortunate, but does make three wars. Your last sentence is a bit confusing. I can assure you that Britain was NOT involved in the Civil War. You were allied with France, Spain and Holland during the War of Independence. As for the 1812-1815 war, you LOST that one. Ask a Canadian if you don't believe me. You one a single battle but lost all the others and lost the war. In any case Britain was much busier fighting Napoleon at the time because if we'd sent Wellington over you'd have surrendered in 5 minutes! oh, but britain WAS involved in the war of northern aggression. that is what led to the battle of the merrimack and monitor. the iron ships were built to blockade the coast to stop the cotton trade with england. your idea that just because the british burned washington, they won, is ludicrous. you got your butt kicked in that one just as you had 36 years previously. britain's penchant for fighting all over europe wasn't conducive to winning anywhere else
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