|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 15:59:05 GMT
and we all know you're not a true Christian so dont keep calling yourself one! you are living in sin every day , according to the bible you should be married , you're not so you're not a true Christian , you cant have it both ways! wrong hon. obviously, i am not following the comandment to be married, but, that is not an essential part of christianity. your friend, and others, are not following the BASIC, foremost commandments of islam. they are not just violating a little directive, they are violating everything that islam stands for you are such a hypocrite hon , it IS an essential part of christianity !
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 16:00:49 GMT
that is wrong! they will not be subject to a sentence of death, that is laughable really laughable that you actually think that! no hon. it is truly sad that you refuse to acknowledge reality. what the hell do you think happened with salmon rushdie? so you think that all the muslim girls who are murdered by their father or brother because they wore a skirt is fine? how do you figure that all the girls held as sex slaves by the numerous muzz ie gangs all over the uk are just fine? NONE of those things are done by islamic "extremists". they are done by the muzz ie next door to you show me a case where a father or brother murdered a muslim girl because she wore a skirt? and those other things are equally done by non muslims!
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on May 20, 2016 16:06:56 GMT
no hon. it is truly sad that you refuse to acknowledge reality. what the hell do you think happened with salmon rushdie? so you think that all the muslim girls who are murdered by their father or brother because they wore a skirt is fine? how do you figure that all the girls held as sex slaves by the numerous muzz ie gangs all over the uk are just fine? NONE of those things are done by islamic "extremists". they are done by the muzz ie next door to you show me a case where a father or brother murdered a muslim girl because she wore a skirt? and those other things are equally done by non muslims! there are hundreds, even thousands of honor killings every year, in the u.s, and in europe. one glaring one that springs to mind is the father in texas who murdered BOTH of his daughters because they wore western clothes. there was the tv executive chap who beheaded his wife in new york. honor killings are aqll over. and, as i said, they are commited by YOUR muslim neighbor, NOT by any extremist. what is equally done by non muslims has absolutely NOTHING to do with the subject
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 20, 2016 20:34:22 GMT
It would be difficult to find a Muslim who doesn't believe the entire white race should feel collective guilt for imperialism and racism. Yet we're expected to see them as good Muslims and bad Muslims with only a tiny fringe percentage supporting terrorism. They claim that the good Muslims overwhelmingly outnumber the bad Muslims. Sorry, but when your religious group kills people in brutal and spectacular fashion day in and day out, every year, you are going to be associated with that thought. You can whine about it all you like, but its your religious dogma that brought this on. Don't like it? Don't associate with the religion. Otherwise, toughen up. No one is going to feel sorry for you. Muslims often hinge the blame on the west and infidels for the misconception and misrepresentation about Muslims/Islam. ISIS, BOKO Haram, Al Shabab murder people in the name of what? ? stones and trees? No! They commit their heinous acts in the name of Islam. Most Muslims fail to address this fact. Why don't Muslims fight the cancer worm in its midst? Muslims have failed to wage WAR against those groups rather they go around blaming the US and other countries for invading Iraq and Afghanistan. But Boko Haram, Abu Shayaf and Al Shabab do not kill for that reason. We will start taking the Muslim Ummah seriously when they begin to say enough is ENOUGH. If Islam is a peaceful religion Muslims worldwide must rise against Islamic terrorism - no buts or ifs, no finger pointing or senseless accusation about Iraq or Afghanistan. Muslims must defend their faith and cease to capitulate to that line of reaction that the invasion of Iraq gives any Muslim the licence to kill in the name of GOD
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on May 20, 2016 23:30:42 GMT
I find most Muslims just prefer to live apart from Europeans + other ethnicities when not doing business or work with them. They are not really interested in making anyone collectively guilty for the crusades, globalist plutocrat and neo con wars in their lands, etc..
Their strength is in their families and yes the children of today are the future of tomorrow.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 23:46:03 GMT
Gibby, offered, “ . . . Well there are plenty of Christians who call themselves Christians who don't follow all of the bible either so that argument don't wash with me. She is a Muslim. . . “ Gibby, you’re comparing apples and oranges, and that is (in my opinion) disrespectful to Muslims. The Muslim ‘must’ follow the words of the Qur’an as they ‘are’ the revealed word of God. Through the Angel Gabriel direct to the last Prophet, Muhammad. This is to be taken as the words of the Qur’an as read and then say them are as if direct from God to your ear. There is no interpretation possible. If there is any question of meaning the Muslim is to use the words of the Hadith which are the descriptions of Muhammad (the perfection of Islam) acting the Qur’an. Christianity has no equivalent. The words of the bible are selected words (edited words) of inspired writers, a very different thing. Interpretation, beginning with which inspired writers are selected and what their words mean, has existed since the writings of Paul (about the years 50 to 75). Even then there are (among scholars) dialog as to which of Paul’s writings are his and which are not. Then too many of the writings were rejected, for example there are no writings by women which were selected. In part this reality of Christianity exists due to another element that exists in Christianity that doesn’t exist in Islam. That is Free Will. In Christianity this exists as a necessity so that the individual can make the choice to become Christian or not. And even then whether to remain as a Christian or not. And that individual is free to return to Christianity on his/her decision. Within this concept there exists interpretation of the writings of those who were inspired to write the Books of the Bible. That is why there are so many different versions of the Bible. And this doesn’t even address the impact of associated writings such as the writings of the Gnostics. This is not true in Islam. There is the word of the Qur’an, that is, the revealed words of Allah. There is a major difference between the two sects of Islam (together they represent about 98 plus percent of all Muslims) and that is primarily how the current leader of Islam is selected. But make no mistake, the individual Muslim must follow the words of Islam. During the month of Ramadan they should speak all the verses of the Qur’an and if possible in Arabic. Those not following these requirements are apostate and subject to a sentence of death. You don’t have to believe me, go to any Imam and ask them.I also agree with the words of Iamjumbo and Bushadmirer with this caveat. With the Hadith associated with the Qur'an, those of Islam 'are' required to look down on the Jews. They allow them to practice their religion (as they are considered People of the Book) if they pay a ransom, but Muhammad when he went from Mecca to Medina murdered all of the males of an entire Jewish village, not because they physically resisted, but because they simply would not give up their Jewish religion. He and his (then) 12 year old wife sat and watched day after day as these males were killed and thrown in a trench. This is an example by the perfect Muslim (Muhammad) as recorded in the Hadith. that is wrong! they will not be subject to a sentence of death, that is laughable really laughable that you actually think that! Remember Gibby, I suggested that you contact an Imam and question Apostate as a function of Islam. Following is an article since I do not believe that you will contact an Imam, one of many that can be brought forward. I apologize for its length. Apostasy from Islam By Nonie Darwish If you convert you die. Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening. For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws. Ms. Al Imam’s incredible courage was on display in an internet chat room, where she announced that she is not afraid, will stand up for the human rights of apostates and refused to leave her homeland, Egypt. This was immediately followed by attacks and calls for death of the 36 year-old graduate of Al Azhar Islamic University. Egyptian media not only reported the threat but actually participated in the attacks. Ms. Al Imam was literally lured by a TV station ‘Al Mihwar’ with the pretext of inviting her for an interview. Upon arrival to the studio she was told the show she was to appear on was cancelled. She was then taken forcibly to a room where she was held against her will for hours inside the studio. She was assaulted, threatened and insulted by several people. She was able to escape, and went to her internet chat room telling the world what happened and said she will demand protection from the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Such actions are common not only against apostates but also against Arab reformists, journalists, intellectuals and feminists who are critical of the oppression of Sharia. They are often intimidated, threatened or even killed for the slightest independent views using the apostasy card to keep them quiet. Journalist Farag Foda, accused of apostasy for advocating women’s rights, was gunned down in 1991 in front of his home in Cairo. Another recent case in Egypt is that of a brilliant intellectual by the name of Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany. He was recently accused of apostasy even though he denied it on TV and insisted he is still a Muslim. That did not stop several fatwas of death from being issued against him. Mr. El Qemany reported 9 threats on his life and pleaded to the world when he wrote the following: “I call upon the conscience of all humanity in the free world to come to me and my children’s rescue by providing moral support and the condemnation and denunciation of the radical thinking with quick solutions to save us from the danger that is luring around us. This is a distress call to all bodies and individuals. A call to the consciences of every free individual in the world. Signed: Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany- Researcher” The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West. The end result is a chaotic society where everything happens behind closed doors but at a very heavy price to Muslim society and interpersonal relationships. Fear and distrust of others exist in all Muslim society. Muslims are not just distrustful of the West, but they are distrustful of one another. People are often more afraid of their neighbors and family members than the police. Thus we see husbands or father pressured to apply Sharia by killing an adulterous wife or daughter, or a perfect stranger participate in killing of an apostate in the public square. Very few get arrested or punished for such crimes across the Muslim world. The ingenious Sharia uses vigilante street justice to bring about Islamic submission. That is why civil unrest, assassinations, coups, and honor crimes go where ever Islam goes. The power of Islam comes from turning Muslim against Muslim with a reward in heaven. But the 21st century has brought major change to the Muslim world. This is perhaps the first time in the history of Islam that Muslims finally have access to the truth about their own religion, thanks to the Internet and satellite dishes (invented by infidels). There are daily news reports of heart-broken Muslims who say they cannot believe what is written in Muslim scriptures and say that Muslims have been living under the greatest lie in human history, others simply deny the undeniable saying that it can’t be. While Saudi Arabia is spending billions to Islamize the West, many Muslim prisoners of Islamic law are dying or leaving the religion quietly. Islamic tyranny is encapsulated in a law (Sharia) where many Muslims escaped from when they moved to America. But some Muslims claim it to be their religious right in America. Many American citizens who left Islam are living in constant fear from Islamist individuals and groups right here, in the land of the free and home of the brave. I am one of them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 14:02:19 GMT
that is wrong! they will not be subject to a sentence of death, that is laughable really laughable that you actually think that! Remember Gibby, I suggested that you contact an Imam and question Apostate as a function of Islam. Following is an article since I do not believe that you will contact an Imam, one of many that can be brought forward. I apologize for its length. Apostasy from Islam By Nonie Darwish If you convert you die. Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening. For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws. Ms. Al Imam’s incredible courage was on display in an internet chat room, where she announced that she is not afraid, will stand up for the human rights of apostates and refused to leave her homeland, Egypt. This was immediately followed by attacks and calls for death of the 36 year-old graduate of Al Azhar Islamic University. Egyptian media not only reported the threat but actually participated in the attacks. Ms. Al Imam was literally lured by a TV station ‘Al Mihwar’ with the pretext of inviting her for an interview. Upon arrival to the studio she was told the show she was to appear on was cancelled. She was then taken forcibly to a room where she was held against her will for hours inside the studio. She was assaulted, threatened and insulted by several people. She was able to escape, and went to her internet chat room telling the world what happened and said she will demand protection from the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Such actions are common not only against apostates but also against Arab reformists, journalists, intellectuals and feminists who are critical of the oppression of Sharia. They are often intimidated, threatened or even killed for the slightest independent views using the apostasy card to keep them quiet. Journalist Farag Foda, accused of apostasy for advocating women’s rights, was gunned down in 1991 in front of his home in Cairo. Another recent case in Egypt is that of a brilliant intellectual by the name of Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany. He was recently accused of apostasy even though he denied it on TV and insisted he is still a Muslim. That did not stop several fatwas of death from being issued against him. Mr. El Qemany reported 9 threats on his life and pleaded to the world when he wrote the following: “I call upon the conscience of all humanity in the free world to come to me and my children’s rescue by providing moral support and the condemnation and denunciation of the radical thinking with quick solutions to save us from the danger that is luring around us. This is a distress call to all bodies and individuals. A call to the consciences of every free individual in the world. Signed: Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany- Researcher” The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West. The end result is a chaotic society where everything happens behind closed doors but at a very heavy price to Muslim society and interpersonal relationships. Fear and distrust of others exist in all Muslim society. Muslims are not just distrustful of the West, but they are distrustful of one another. People are often more afraid of their neighbors and family members than the police. Thus we see husbands or father pressured to apply Sharia by killing an adulterous wife or daughter, or a perfect stranger participate in killing of an apostate in the public square. Very few get arrested or punished for such crimes across the Muslim world. The ingenious Sharia uses vigilante street justice to bring about Islamic submission. That is why civil unrest, assassinations, coups, and honor crimes go where ever Islam goes. The power of Islam comes from turning Muslim against Muslim with a reward in heaven. But the 21st century has brought major change to the Muslim world. This is perhaps the first time in the history of Islam that Muslims finally have access to the truth about their own religion, thanks to the Internet and satellite dishes (invented by infidels). There are daily news reports of heart-broken Muslims who say they cannot believe what is written in Muslim scriptures and say that Muslims have been living under the greatest lie in human history, others simply deny the undeniable saying that it can’t be. While Saudi Arabia is spending billions to Islamize the West, many Muslim prisoners of Islamic law are dying or leaving the religion quietly. Islamic tyranny is encapsulated in a law (Sharia) where many Muslims escaped from when they moved to America. But some Muslims claim it to be their religious right in America. Many American citizens who left Islam are living in constant fear from Islamist individuals and groups right here, in the land of the free and home of the brave. I am one of them. I dont need to contact one! i have plenty of Muslim friends who say otherwise
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 16:47:53 GMT
I don’t (didn’t) expect to change your views on this Gibby.
It is nice that you have Muslim friends and that they can provide expertise on Islam. Then, in that same context of logic, I’m assuming that you have Christian friends and that whatever they tell you about Christianity you accept as truth.
Personally, I have found that authorative (scholarly) sources are generally better sources.
However, in Christian Authorities this is challenging due to there being so many different Christian versions and so many different authorities of differing interpretation. Of course this is not true in Islam.
Islam has about 20 sects or versions or schools but about 99% of Islam is limited to two versions, Sunni and Shia. Of those two groups Sunni represents about 85% and Shia represents about 15%. Their most distinctive difference is that of identifying leadership. Shia views the leader as being from Muhammad’s family line and Sunni views leadership as selected. To we of the West this may seem to be a relatively minor difference but not to those of Islam as the more fundamentalist of both do not recognize the other as being Muslims. Even so, both of these two versions of Islam accept the Qur’an as the ‘revealed’ word of God, Allah. It cannot be interpreted. There in the Qur’an, and in the Hadith, Apostates are defined and it is defined what to do about them.
It is also true that there are always those who (shall we say) chafe under the yoke of the religion they wear, and find justifications for following a different path. Often that is a minor alteration and sometimes it is far more extreme. The serious nature of such variation is defined within the core value and writings of the original religion.
We of the West have an arrogance of rightness of our collective beliefs. That is, we expect (almost without thought or consideration) that if we treat those of other cultural foundations as we would treat those among our own, they will then react as if they are from Western values. That is true arrogance.
The core values of Western values and the core values of Islam do not mesh. We have a 1,400-year history, of bloody abrasive, warfare, contact that demonstrates that reality. The basic values are 180 degrees apart. Islam requires the individual to adhere to the beliefs and practices of the Last Prophet Muhammad as written in Qur’an and Hadith, that is little or no free will as important, in the Western philosophies (inclusive of Christianity) Free Will is a necessity.
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on May 21, 2016 17:49:28 GMT
Remember Gibby, I suggested that you contact an Imam and question Apostate as a function of Islam. Following is an article since I do not believe that you will contact an Imam, one of many that can be brought forward. I apologize for its length. Apostasy from Islam By Nonie Darwish If you convert you die. Few Americans know what is going on inside the Muslim world and what it portends for them. The fact is that, most Americans are subjected to much of the same misinformation with regard to Islam that I grew up with inside the Muslim world. Thus Americans are in the dark attempting to formulate their strategy to defend themselves against the threat of terror, domestic jihad and Sharia. While they get ridiculed for being ‘Islamophobes’, the Muslim world itself is undergoing a huge and painful awakening. For instance, a prominent Egyptian lawyer and women’s rights activist Nagla Al Imam recently announced her conversion to Christianity in Cairo, Egypt. The announcement brought shock waves in and beyond Egypt. This is perhaps the first case ever of its kind where a Muslim woman, who is also a Sharia expert, has openly challenged Islamic apostasy laws. Ms. Al Imam’s incredible courage was on display in an internet chat room, where she announced that she is not afraid, will stand up for the human rights of apostates and refused to leave her homeland, Egypt. This was immediately followed by attacks and calls for death of the 36 year-old graduate of Al Azhar Islamic University. Egyptian media not only reported the threat but actually participated in the attacks. Ms. Al Imam was literally lured by a TV station ‘Al Mihwar’ with the pretext of inviting her for an interview. Upon arrival to the studio she was told the show she was to appear on was cancelled. She was then taken forcibly to a room where she was held against her will for hours inside the studio. She was assaulted, threatened and insulted by several people. She was able to escape, and went to her internet chat room telling the world what happened and said she will demand protection from the Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak. Such actions are common not only against apostates but also against Arab reformists, journalists, intellectuals and feminists who are critical of the oppression of Sharia. They are often intimidated, threatened or even killed for the slightest independent views using the apostasy card to keep them quiet. Journalist Farag Foda, accused of apostasy for advocating women’s rights, was gunned down in 1991 in front of his home in Cairo. Another recent case in Egypt is that of a brilliant intellectual by the name of Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany. He was recently accused of apostasy even though he denied it on TV and insisted he is still a Muslim. That did not stop several fatwas of death from being issued against him. Mr. El Qemany reported 9 threats on his life and pleaded to the world when he wrote the following: “I call upon the conscience of all humanity in the free world to come to me and my children’s rescue by providing moral support and the condemnation and denunciation of the radical thinking with quick solutions to save us from the danger that is luring around us. This is a distress call to all bodies and individuals. A call to the consciences of every free individual in the world. Signed: Sayed Mahmoud El Qemany- Researcher” The relatively few number of Muslims who dare to convert to Christianity do that in extreme secrecy. That is because the penalty for leaving Islam is death in all schools of Sharia, both Sunni and Shiite. Those who wrote Sharia centuries ago knew that keeping Muslims in total submission would be very difficult to maintain, and thus they established barbaric laws condemning Muslims to death for exercising their basic human rights to choose their religion. Sharia never entrusted its enforcement only to the formal legal system. Islam promises heavenly rewards to individual Muslims who take the law into their own hands. Sharia states that the killers of apostates and adulterers are not to be punished as murderers. That is why, for Islam to achieve 100% compliance to Sharia enforcement, Muslim individuals were told they must be Allah’s enforces of Sharia on earth if the government fails to do so. That is the reason honor killing and killing of apostates happen in the West. The end result is a chaotic society where everything happens behind closed doors but at a very heavy price to Muslim society and interpersonal relationships. Fear and distrust of others exist in all Muslim society. Muslims are not just distrustful of the West, but they are distrustful of one another. People are often more afraid of their neighbors and family members than the police. Thus we see husbands or father pressured to apply Sharia by killing an adulterous wife or daughter, or a perfect stranger participate in killing of an apostate in the public square. Very few get arrested or punished for such crimes across the Muslim world. The ingenious Sharia uses vigilante street justice to bring about Islamic submission. That is why civil unrest, assassinations, coups, and honor crimes go where ever Islam goes. The power of Islam comes from turning Muslim against Muslim with a reward in heaven. But the 21st century has brought major change to the Muslim world. This is perhaps the first time in the history of Islam that Muslims finally have access to the truth about their own religion, thanks to the Internet and satellite dishes (invented by infidels). There are daily news reports of heart-broken Muslims who say they cannot believe what is written in Muslim scriptures and say that Muslims have been living under the greatest lie in human history, others simply deny the undeniable saying that it can’t be. While Saudi Arabia is spending billions to Islamize the West, many Muslim prisoners of Islamic law are dying or leaving the religion quietly. Islamic tyranny is encapsulated in a law (Sharia) where many Muslims escaped from when they moved to America. But some Muslims claim it to be their religious right in America. Many American citizens who left Islam are living in constant fear from Islamist individuals and groups right here, in the land of the free and home of the brave. I am one of them. I dont need to contact one! i have plenty of Muslim friends who say otherwise that's just even more proof that your friends are not muslims. if the women meet you in public without a male escort, they are disobeying their religion. are they always wearing a scarf? it is obvious that your friends are not muslims
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 18:10:00 GMT
I dont need to contact one! i have plenty of Muslim friends who say otherwise that's just even more proof that your friends are not muslims. if the women meet you in public without a male escort, they are disobeying their religion. are they always wearing a scarf? it is obvious that your friends are not muslims What a load of ignorant crap !!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 18:14:26 GMT
I don’t (didn’t) expect to change your views on this Gibby. It is nice that you have Muslim friends and that they can provide expertise on Islam. Then, in that same context of logic, I’m assuming that you have Christian friends and that whatever they tell you about Christianity you accept as truth. Personally, I have found that autoreactive (scholarly) sources are generally better sources. However, in Christian Authorities this is challenging due to there being so many different Christian versions and so many different authorities of differing interpretation. Of course this is not true in Islam. Islam has about 20 sects or versions or schools but about 99% of Islam is limited to two versions, Sunni and Shia. Of those two groups Sunni represents about 85% and Shia represents about 15%. Their most distinctive difference is that of identifying leadership. Shia views the leader as being from Muhammad’s family line and Sunni views leadership as selected. To we of the West this may seem to be a relatively minor difference but not to those of Islam as the more fundamentalist of both do not recognize the other as being Muslims. Even so, both of these two versions of Islam accept the Qur’an as the ‘revealed’ word of God, Allah. It cannot be interpreted. There in the Qur’an, and in the Hadith, Apostates are defined and it is defined what to do about them. It is also true that there are always those who (shall we say) chafe under the yoke of the religion they wear, and find justifications for following a different path. Often that is a minor alteration and sometimes it is far more extreme. The serious nature of such variation is defined within the core value and writings of the original religion. We of the West have an arrogance of rightness of our collective beliefs. That is, we expect (almost without thought or consideration) that if we treat those of other cultural foundations as we would treat those among our own, they will then react as if they are from Western values. That is true arrogance. The core values of Western values and the core values of Islam do not mesh. We have a 1,400-year history, of bloody abrasive, warfare, contact that demonstrates that reality. The basic values are 180 degrees apart. Islam requires the individual to adhere to the beliefs and practices of the Last Prophet Muhammad as written in Qur’an and Hadith, that is little or no free will as important, in the Western philosophies (inclusive of Christianity) Free Will is a necessity. You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! No you won't change my view as I live in a multi cultural society and I see every day Muslims as good people who do live in peace with us non believers on a daily basis where I live
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 21, 2016 18:31:17 GMT
I find most Muslims just prefer to live apart from Europeans + other ethnicities when not doing business or work with them. They are not really interested in making anyone collectively guilty for the crusades, globalist plutocrat and neo con wars in their lands, etc.. Their strength is in their families and yes the children of today are the future of tomorrow. Is it that they prefer to live apart from Europeans? Or is it that their Koran instructs them to avoid friendships with non believers?
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on May 21, 2016 18:46:15 GMT
I find most Muslims just prefer to live apart from Europeans + other ethnicities when not doing business or work with them. They are not really interested in making anyone collectively guilty for the crusades, globalist plutocrat and neo con wars in their lands, etc.. Their strength is in their families and yes the children of today are the future of tomorrow. Is it that they prefer to live apart from Europeans? Or is it that their Koran instructs them to avoid friendships with non believers? A bit of both I guess. When they become the majority in Germany and elsewhere their political parties will take over.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 21:52:42 GMT
Gibby stated: “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . . . No you won't change my view as I live in a multi cultural society and I see every day Muslims as good people who do live in peace with us non believers on a daily basis where I live. . . . “
So, it must be that the Founder of the religion of Islam (The Last Prophet Muhammad) is (was) a liar, at least that is the result of interpretation of the Qur’an.
Muhammad was considered by Allah as the last Prophet because the preceding Prophets had got things wrong, or their words were changed. Muhammad was selected as the last Prophet to “once and for all time” correct the errors of those who preceded him. That is why the words he stated from his time with the Angle Gabriel were considered as revealed. That is, the revealed word of God, Allah.
To interpret those revealed words differently than as written in the Qur’an from the mouth of Muhammad, is to say either, they are not the revealed words of Allah, or, Allah gave them incorrectly. If you are a Muslim, neither of those assumptions can be true.
Your comment, “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . “
First that they outnumber us (whatever us means to you: The world population is estimated at 7.167 billion peoples. Christians are 2.2 Billion. Muslims are 1.6 billion. Secular/non-religious/ agnostic/Atheist are 1.1 billion Hinduism is about 1 billion
That is about 6 billion and the remaining about 1.2 billion are divided among all the other many religions.
Of the Islamic peoples nearly all are Sunni (about 85% 1.36 billion) and Shia (about 15% 240,000,000) Nearly all who (currently are actively terrorist in philosophy) are Shia in the concept of worldwide Caliphate to be achieved via Jihad. Jihad is of multiple types not all of which are terrorist but it is estimated about 10% or 24,000,000) still a sizable number but far below out numbering whoever “US” are. In addition, this number is additionally mitigated because of the ongoing war between Shia and Sunni.
Even if the majority of Muslims interpret the Qur’an in a peaceful way, the way you are implying it here is a misunderstanding of the Qur’an. People raised under Wester philosophy of logic have a difficult understanding of logic existing within the Qur’an. Muhammad received the revealed word of Allah over a period of many years. Some of the early revelations were considered as early teaching and later updated in later revelations. However, both (in the world of Islam) are considered true at the same time. Whether Islam is peaceful or not is not a straight foreword question and answer. During Muhammad’s early years in Mecca the conversion of people to Islam was accomplished peacefully with discussion. From this reality people consider Islam peaceful and in truth this developed few converts.
When Muhammad went to Medina this process changed to one of violence, either convert or die. This was evidenced in the killing of all males in a Jewish village and the enslavement of all of the women. Both of these are in the Qur’an and both are consider true at the same time although they are conversion processes which are poles apart. This is not interpretation but selective use of the Qur’an depending on the situation. This is why a Muslim can agree with you on some issue and find it perfectly moral to reject that agreement when it becomes an advantage to Islam to do so.
Muslims accept:
The Five Pillars of Islam The Quran — the Book of Allah The Hadith – The acts of Muhammad The Sunnah — the “Way” of the Prophet Muhammad Sharia Law
Nothing else matters to them including contact with and/or friendship with nonbelievers. .
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 17:20:04 GMT
Gibby stated: “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . . . No you won't change my view as I live in a multi cultural society and I see every day Muslims as good people who do live in peace with us non believers on a daily basis where I live. . . . “ So, it must be that the Founder of the religion of Islam (The Last Prophet Muhammad) is (was) a liar, at least that is the result of interpretation of the Qur’an. Muhammad was considered by Allah as the last Prophet because the preceding Prophets had got things wrong, or their words were changed. Muhammad was selected as the last Prophet to “once and for all time” correct the errors of those who preceded him. That is why the words he stated from his time with the Angle Gabriel were considered as revealed. That is, the revealed word of God, Allah. To interpret those revealed words differently than as written in the Qur’an from the mouth of Muhammad, is to say either, they are not the revealed words of Allah, or, Allah gave them incorrectly. If you are a Muslim, neither of those assumptions can be true. Your comment, “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . “ First that they outnumber us (whatever us means to you: The world population is estimated at 7.167 billion peoples. Christians are 2.2 Billion. Muslims are 1.6 billion. Secular/non-religious/ agnostic/Atheist are 1.1 billion Hinduism is about 1 billion That is about 6 billion and the remaining about 1.2 billion are divided among all the other many religions. Of the Islamic peoples nearly all are Sunni (about 85% 1.36 billion) and Shia (about 15% 240,000,000) Nearly all who (currently are actively terrorist in philosophy) are Shia in the concept of worldwide Caliphate to be achieved via Jihad. Jihad is of multiple types not all of which are terrorist but it is estimated about 10% or 24,000,000) still a sizable number but far below out numbering whoever “US” are. In addition, this number is additionally mitigated because of the ongoing war between Shia and Sunni. Even if the majority of Muslims interpret the Qur’an in a peaceful way, the way you are implying it here is a misunderstanding of the Qur’an. People raised under Wester philosophy of logic have a difficult understanding of logic existing within the Qur’an. Muhammad received the revealed word of Allah over a period of many years. Some of the early revelations were considered as early teaching and later updated in later revelations. However, both (in the world of Islam) are considered true at the same time. Whether Islam is peaceful or not is not a straight foreword question and answer. During Muhammad’s early years in Mecca the conversion of people to Islam was accomplished peacefully with discussion. From this reality people consider Islam peaceful and in truth this developed few converts. When Muhammad went to Medina this process changed to one of violence, either convert or die. This was evidenced in the killing of all males in a Jewish village and the enslavement of all of the women. Both of these are in the Qur’an and both are consider true at the same time although they are conversion processes which are poles apart. This is not interpretation but selective use of the Qur’an depending on the situation. This is why a Muslim can agree with you on some issue and find it perfectly moral to reject that agreement when it becomes an advantage to Islam to do so. Muslims accept: The Five Pillars of Islam The Quran — the Book of Allah The Hadith – The acts of Muhammad The Sunnah — the “Way” of the Prophet Muhammad Sharia Law Nothing else matters to them including contact with and/or friendship with nonbelievers. . So the millions of Muslims in the uk are wrong and you're right , I see ....
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 17:21:34 GMT
I find most Muslims just prefer to live apart from Europeans + other ethnicities when not doing business or work with them. They are not really interested in making anyone collectively guilty for the crusades, globalist plutocrat and neo con wars in their lands, etc.. Their strength is in their families and yes the children of today are the future of tomorrow. Is it that they prefer to live apart from Europeans? Or is it that their Koran instructs them to avoid friendships with non believers? The Koran doesn't instruct anything of the sort ! For petes sake the level of ignorance is unbelievable !! It's like listening to a bunch of idiots try and make sense of the bible ... An eye for an eye ? Does that mean I have to gouge your eye out and you can have mine !!!! I'm speechless
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on May 22, 2016 19:00:49 GMT
Is it that they prefer to live apart from Europeans? Or is it that their Koran instructs them to avoid friendships with non believers? The Koran doesn't instruct anything of the sort ! For petes sake the level of ignorance is unbelievable !! It's like listening to a bunch of idiots try and make sense of the bible ... An eye for an eye ? Does that mean I have to gouge your eye out and you can have mine !!!! I'm speechless damn hon, you'd better quite while you're ahead. you have no idea what the qu'ran says. just so you don't continue to appear a fool though: Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing: But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks." there is nothing difficult to comprehend muslims are FORBIDDEN to be friends with any non muslim
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 19:39:51 GMT
Gibby stated: “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . . . No you won't change my view as I live in a multi cultural society and I see every day Muslims as good people who do live in peace with us non believers on a daily basis where I live. . . . “ So, it must be that the Founder of the religion of Islam (The Last Prophet Muhammad) is (was) a liar, at least that is the result of interpretation of the Qur’an. Muhammad was considered by Allah as the last Prophet because the preceding Prophets had got things wrong, or their words were changed. Muhammad was selected as the last Prophet to “once and for all time” correct the errors of those who preceded him. That is why the words he stated from his time with the Angle Gabriel were considered as revealed. That is, the revealed word of God, Allah. To interpret those revealed words differently than as written in the Qur’an from the mouth of Muhammad, is to say either, they are not the revealed words of Allah, or, Allah gave them incorrectly. If you are a Muslim, neither of those assumptions can be true. Your comment, “ . . . You're wrong again I'm afraid , of course Muslims interpret the Quran and the majority interpret it in a peaceful way if they didn't then all us non believers would be dead as they outnumber us ! . . . “ First that they outnumber us (whatever us means to you: The world population is estimated at 7.167 billion peoples. Christians are 2.2 Billion. Muslims are 1.6 billion. Secular/non-religious/ agnostic/Atheist are 1.1 billion Hinduism is about 1 billion That is about 6 billion and the remaining about 1.2 billion are divided among all the other many religions. Of the Islamic peoples nearly all are Sunni (about 85% 1.36 billion) and Shia (about 15% 240,000,000) Nearly all who (currently are actively terrorist in philosophy) are Shia in the concept of worldwide Caliphate to be achieved via Jihad. Jihad is of multiple types not all of which are terrorist but it is estimated about 10% or 24,000,000) still a sizable number but far below out numbering whoever “US” are. In addition, this number is additionally mitigated because of the ongoing war between Shia and Sunni. Even if the majority of Muslims interpret the Qur’an in a peaceful way, the way you are implying it here is a misunderstanding of the Qur’an. People raised under Wester philosophy of logic have a difficult understanding of logic existing within the Qur’an. Muhammad received the revealed word of Allah over a period of many years. Some of the early revelations were considered as early teaching and later updated in later revelations. However, both (in the world of Islam) are considered true at the same time. Whether Islam is peaceful or not is not a straight foreword question and answer. During Muhammad’s early years in Mecca the conversion of people to Islam was accomplished peacefully with discussion. From this reality people consider Islam peaceful and in truth this developed few converts. When Muhammad went to Medina this process changed to one of violence, either convert or die. This was evidenced in the killing of all males in a Jewish village and the enslavement of all of the women. Both of these are in the Qur’an and both are consider true at the same time although they are conversion processes which are poles apart. This is not interpretation but selective use of the Qur’an depending on the situation. This is why a Muslim can agree with you on some issue and find it perfectly moral to reject that agreement when it becomes an advantage to Islam to do so. Muslims accept: The Five Pillars of Islam The Quran — the Book of Allah The Hadith – The acts of Muhammad The Sunnah — the “Way” of the Prophet Muhammad Sharia Law Nothing else matters to them including contact with and/or friendship with nonbelievers. . So the millions of Muslims in the uk are wrong and you're right , I see .... I don't believe that they see it any differently than I do since I'm confident that they use the same Islamic Scholars that I do. There is nothing new here Gibby as we have 1,400 years of history (plus Muhammad's revealed words of Allah) to which we (mopre correctly the scholars) refer to. In 1,400 years there has been little change among Muslims.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on May 22, 2016 21:25:55 GMT
It's true that Muslim extremism was no more of an issue than medieval Christianity was until the Globalist high finance elite decided to eliminate the governments that were containing it. I'm convinced that ISIS, etc. is financed by the same ilk of Wall street bankers that financed the Russian revolution and Hitler. Nothing enriches them more than war.
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on May 22, 2016 22:31:04 GMT
Is it that they prefer to live apart from Europeans? Or is it that their Koran instructs them to avoid friendships with non believers? The Koran doesn't instruct anything of the sort ! For petes sake the level of ignorance is unbelievable !! It's like listening to a bunch of idiots try and make sense of the bible ... An eye for an eye ? Does that mean I have to gouge your eye out and you can have mine !!!! I'm speechless Gibby - My spell checker constantly tries to change your handle from Gibby to Gabby. I'll try to catch it every time by my apologies should I miss it once or twice. The Koran actually does indeed instruct them to avoid friendships with non believers. It is very explicit and direct on that point. That command is reinforced several times in the Quran. O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves? Qur'an 4:144 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust. Qur'an 5:51 O you who believe! do not take for intimate friends from among others than your own people; they do not fall short of inflicting loss upon you; they love what distresses you; vehement hatred has already appeared from out of their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater still; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you, if you will understand. Qur'an 3:118
|
|