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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 24, 2015 9:27:32 GMT
Hi Men an tol, Let me say this, I definitely do not think that I am being attacked, that word has connotations of animosity to me, and I do not have that kind of feeling towards anyone. I see our conversation as just not seeing eye to eye and there is no animosity in that. I understand every word that you have written and what they imply, so every suggestion that you have put forward as to my spiritual experiences, could be a possibility, I am not oblivious of that, but I know that these particular suggestions are not the case. As for Dr Eban Alexander, no matter what the people that treated him say, I still believe that his experiences are a reality and not a hallucination. Psychiatrists and such have been trained to believe what is the accepted belief, and ofcourse the diagnosis will always be this, that anyone that has an experience that cannot be explained, has to be an aberration of the mind. Dr Alexander, also held this view until his spiritual experience changed his attitude to one of acceptance of other dimensions Many people have suffered the indignity of being declared mentally ill, so it is a revelation that a person who previously thought along these lines, should have an experience that proves to him, that there is more to life than what is perceived as a normal occurrence. Intersted Bob has provided links and the one second from the bottom is a review of his experiences as given to a female journalist. What he had to say is completely plausible as it corresponds to similar experiences that ECKists have had and still have. By the way Men an tol, when I asked you about the integrity of your doctor as to his diagnosis of the fact that you had died, I was teasing you. I tend to take everything that is stated by someone as being the truth, until I find out differently. As you mentioned that you had not had a a NDE even though you had died, I just thought I would tease you a little, by making that suggestion. Over the years on the internet misunderstandings occur quite regularly. It shouldn't be surprising as we converse over the internet sort of as if we had our arms tied behind us. That is, in a room of people we have facial expressions, body language, tonal inflection, the opportunity to read responses from the actions (or lack there of) of the audience. Of course, here in the internet we only have the written language, albeit a very powerful language with great depth, but generally we use it very poorly. Getting ideas across to others is always a challenge but some things (I believe) are more challenging than others, such as irony, in fact any type of humor is as often as not doomed to misunderstandings at best. I know, many use the little faces and other icons to try to convey meaning and mood, I'm not good at using them so I don't. Writing (at least for me) is a hard, difficult, task, which is aggressive in nature, meaning, one must take hold of it and make it do as desired. Add to this the reality that many come from different cultural backgrounds which adds even more of a challenge. Spellings are some times at odds with each the of use of punctuation can be a real problem. Now in this day and age we have people who are use to tweeting (I'm not so inclined) and that adds another barrier to possible misunderstanding. All of us also assume more than we should. We assume that all others will understand our implying certain things and then we go off on different tangents often never realizing that we are traveling alone. This has often make me think of the old story (from India I think) of the five blind men walking through a forest when they meet an elephant. One grabs hold of the trunk, another grabs the tail, another takes hold of an ear, another holds a tusk and the fifth one grabs a leg. Now they each describe this 'thing' that they have met and each comes to believe that the others are lying. No common ground is achievable and yet they all have the common experience of meeting an elephant. Do we not all often have the same experience here? Of course, for me it is simple as I know that I am the only one with the real understanding! This is amazing Men an tol, I don't know how many times I have been going to post the same story. I first heard it when I became a member of ECKANKAR, so that's eighteen years ago. I have used that story before when I have been speaking with people. I'm not too hot with the Smilies either, they are free, I believe but I haven't mastered the art of using them either, so that's at least two things that we have in common. Usually links don't work for me, but I was able to get through on one and it turned out to be the one where Dr Alexander was being interviewed and I was really amazed at what he had to say. He was speaking as if he was an ECKist. I am glad that things have turned out so well for him, seeing he had got himself into so much trouble.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 24, 2015 10:52:12 GMT
Hi Men an tol, what can I say? You apparently have all the answers. I, along with other ECKists are the ones who are having the out of the body experiences. Such as Dr Alexander also had. Why should your friends think that ECKIsts are weird, we all behave quite normally. I've never had anyone tell me that I am weird. I am a sociable person, I go about my business the same as everyone else does. Even if I should talk about ECKANKAR, they might ask questions if they are interested, if not, then that is as far as the conversation goes. There is no point in proceeding any further if the person isn't interested in finding out what ECKANKAR is all about. Our conversation started because we were discussing religion, so I naturally added my tuppenceworth. My viewpoint was ofcourse from the perspective of being an ECKist. I also mention the Christian Bible because I have been a Christian until 1997 when I became a member of ECKANKAR. I also did a 2yr study of Christianity. I was having supernatural experiences such as out of the body experiences, seeing dead people and was a Spiritual Healer where there is a laying on of hands such as in Reiki Healing. I have studied all the different kinds of healing. And they do work!!! A person can only discuss the pros and cons of anything if they have had similar experiences, otherwise it is an impossibility to expect people to understand. You evidently don't think that we can have meaningful dialogue on this topic so, we will call it a day If that is what you wish. Scottish Lassie, I am happy for you that you have found for yourself what you believe to be important and significant in your life. Others, should be so fortunate. Yes , as I have related more than once, meaningful dialog is something I not only like but participate in as part of my many contacts and is something I'll be involved in no matter what you do, or don't do. . Meaningful dialog includes 'actual' exchange of information and thoughts as well as give and take as to the credibility of such exchanges. I must offer the comment that trying to do that with you is more than a little challenging. Whether meaning to or not you present an image that begins and ends with your stated spiritual experiences with the comments of others being not worthy of addressing. The few sources that you offer have been less than convincing, such as Dr. Alexander who has been vetted (something you admit to not doing) and he has been found wanting and without credibility by his own peer group. That reality you simply pretend doesn't exist and continue to use his book as a proposed 'credible' source for science acceptance of your claims of the existence of spiritual contact. It isn't such as stated by that very scientific community, but that reality seems to evade your recognition. Your reference of the existence of multiple dimensions being supported by the community of physicists is stated by you as if it is an absolute, it isn't as any physicist and mathematician will tell you (rather it is an interesting musing at best) and certainly has never reached a level of mathematical acceptance within that science community. When actual sources that support your beliefs (at least to some degree or version) such as Gnostics and in particular Valentinian Gnosticism are offered it is as if the offer were never made. In truth you do not have to prove anything as what you have describe are your beliefs, an act of faith. Beliefs and faith cannot be argued and at best can only be provided through the act of witnessing. That witnessing is affective in some venues but not in the world of those who do not have kindred beliefs. In the temporal world witnessing as a singular act has little if any value and really doesn't exist. No, I certainly do not have all of the answers, rather, I view myself as existing in a world of unknowns and in that world seek those things which can be verified through the work of myself or the works of others who verify their provided answers. Does that then mean that I do not find religious organizations and their developed ethics and morals meaningful? Of course not as these are also the tangible result of actions between people in the temporal world, a societal aspect of the nature of Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Does it then follow that those who state acts definable only within the spirit world are not of interest to me? Of course not but to be functionally meaningful they must be provable. Spirit contact, faith healing, other such claims, have been in the world of humans as far back as our history goes, but unless they have tangible evidence (at least for me) then they cannot (reasonably) be used as causation for ensuing acts. For whatever reason a person finds these spirit oriented relationships and acts meaningful in their lives I support them to continue. In my community I am one of the strongest advocates for people being part of a religion and following its codes. It is where most people acquire their ethics and morals and community responsibility. Hi Men an tol, I have always believed in God even as a child, so have always been interested in the unknown. I enjoy life on this physical plane but it is common place as opposed to the things that are unknown. I was very curious and still am to a certain extent. I am also on a forum that discusses what is happening in space, plus Flying Saucers also known as UFO's. I have see one during the daytime so I know that they are real. I believe that they are already on this earth surveying things. As for healing. I think it is better to have a healing where you can be cured of this and that instead of being carved up or having to take medication that sometimes can have an adverse effect. miracle healings do take place. Whilst a person is laying on hands, they are receiving information about any condition that the patient has, so the person who is acting as the healer knows where to put their hands.It really is amazing. I am no longer involved anymore, but confine my interests to posting on forums and enjoying the conversation with others. I lead a pretty quiet life nowadays and live simply, doing the things that I like to do, such as reading, gardening, crosswords and watching my favourite programs on television. That's about it!!!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 14:41:12 GMT
I don't care what anyone says NO ONE KNOWS for certain.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 31, 2015 1:09:16 GMT
I don't care what anyone says NO ONE KNOWS for certain. Hi Gibby, Someone engineered it, I'm sure of that and all for our benefit. How good is that!!!?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 14:04:57 GMT
we dont know for certain though
* the quote system doesnt seem to be working?
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Post by interestedbob on Aug 31, 2015 18:03:41 GMT
we dont know for certain though * the quote system doesnt seem to be working? Seems to work OK for me, Deleted.
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Post by interestedbob on Aug 31, 2015 18:41:29 GMT
I don't care what anyone says NO ONE KNOWS for certain. Hi Gibby, Someone engineered it, I'm sure of that and all for our benefit. How good is that!!!? You don't make it clear, Scottish Lassie, but I assume that by 'it' you mean the Universe and everything in it. It all depends on whether you believe that the environment was built to suit us, as you do, or that we evolved to suit the environment, as I do. As Deleted correctly said, no one knows for certain. We only believe we know, either way. If the environment really was engineered to suit us, how come the poor devils living in parts of Africa starve to death in their thousands every year because no rain falls there? "....all for our benefit. How good is that!!!?" seems just a teenie bit inappropriate if you look at it from their point of view, doesn't it?
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Aug 31, 2015 23:43:20 GMT
Hi Gibby, Someone engineered it, I'm sure of that and all for our benefit. How good is that!!!? You don't make it clear, Scottish Lassie, but I assume that by 'it' you mean the Universe and everything in it. It all depends on whether you believe that the environment was built to suit us, as you do, or that we evolved to suit the environment, as I do. As Deleted correctly said, no one knows for certain. We only believe we know, either way. If the environment really was engineered to suit us, how come the poor devils living in parts of Africa starve to death in their thousands every year because no rain falls there? "....all for our benefit. How good is that!!!?" seems just a teenie bit inappropriate if you look at it from their point of view, doesn't it? Hi Interested Bob, Ofcourse, I am always going to answer these questions from the viewpoint of an ECKist, because that is what I am. But what are they doing there in the first place if it doesn't rain. I would think it was time to move to more fertile places, I thought the Africans were a nomadic race? Like you, I believe that the Universe wasn't formed in an instant, but nevertheless it was formed for our benefit, so that we might come to learn certain things in order to prove yoursef I guess. As I believe there is a Creator, then it would seem that we are being tried and tested. We have been given freedom of choice, are we using it in the right way, or are we failing miserably? As the forces of positivity and negativity exist, we are given the opportunity to choose either one. This is a world of duality ( opposites ) so we can take our pick. If these forces did not exist, we would be as robots not able to think for ourselves. So what choices will we make for ourselves? It seems we have already done that, which is why the world is in the state that it is in. We have created, by our past choices, what we see around us today. Is this the best that we can do? As we in ECKANKAR see ourselves as Soul and Soul dwells on the Soul plane, then where is the Soul plane? Could it be in the Kingdom of God, and how do you get to the Kingdom of God? That is why we are here!!! Maybe someday we will find it.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Oct 5, 2016 6:36:45 GMT
So he was rescued by a game-playing geek? Hi Biglin, Like we set up an aquarium maybe that is what this universe is like, being put together by someone who is gigantic in comparison to us, not necessarily by a geek but by an exceedingly intelligent person. Who knows?
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 4, 2018 9:08:05 GMT
So he was rescued by a game-playing geek? Who knows? I prefer to believe it was a caring loving God that saved him.
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Post by Mozzie on Feb 12, 2018 8:06:09 GMT
The guys an idiot, he can prove nothing and is another false prophet
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 16, 2018 14:26:06 GMT
The guys an idiot, he can prove nothing and is another false prophet Some people believe this universe is like going to the cinema and watching a movie.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 16, 2018 14:33:26 GMT
Hi Anna, Anything is possible, Paul Twitchel was driving his car very fast once and when turning a corner lost control.it was about to turn over and crash, when a huge arm came out of the sky and set the car upright preventing a crash. The occupants of the cars following behind, saw this take place, so were witnesses to this incident. So maybe we are not as big as we think we are compared to what else is out there. Thank you Scottish Lassie. I'm sorry but that is really funny. I'm guessing that you are relating this story 'tongue in cheek' and that you don't really believe that it happened. Ofcourse I believe it.!!! A similar thing happened to me. A gigantic bare arm came out of the sky and handed me a book. This was an out of the body experience.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 17, 2018 0:56:39 GMT
The guys an idiot, he can prove nothing and is another false prophet What do you know about false prophets?
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 17, 2018 1:01:40 GMT
So he was rescued by a game-playing geek? Good job I was not at the controls otherwise he would have been a gonna. I'm so useless at computer games that I'd probably get the blame for Princess Diana!! ll One day we might know the complete truth, in the meantime we will each see life as we believe it to be.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 17, 2018 1:20:00 GMT
What is fake? Anything we can imagine has some form of existence. Even the most absurd things has something corresponding in our imagination giving them an existence.
The only concept I can't imagine is absolute nothingness. A black empty vacuum is not nothingness. Life is strange, most of us know that. We all have to rely on what is given to us and what conclusions we finally come to, after having analysed the info that our senses have received and digested.
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Post by Mozzie on Feb 19, 2018 6:35:02 GMT
The guys an idiot, he can prove nothing and is another false prophet What do you know about false prophets? Quite a bit actually, i was involved in a sect that i thought was the truth, 20 years i was under their thumb, i know the fear tactics they use, the manipulation they used, the threats they use which they try to hide it by their own reasoning of the scriptures, i have studies the Bible for years, i know the signs of a false prophet spelled out in Mathew Mark Luke. I have felt the sting of a cult and false prophets, they teach their word and not Gods.
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Post by ladydi on Feb 20, 2018 12:31:47 GMT
Yes they sure do! So glad you got out safely Mozzie ! It never ceases to amaze me how people assume they know so much about another to go as far as saying 'what do you know?!' Thanks for sharing about the cult with us! We actually went on a bus tour of our own state years a go and visited the "Palace Of Gold" in Moundsville, W.Va. OH it was gorgeous, but here come to find out, it too was a cult. When the guide was telling us all about it, instead of saying 'this is our belief' he tried to push their belief on the entire tour group. We had some elderly on the tour, and I was so proud of this old guy who stood up for God! We were never so glad to get down off their mountain! Had we known ahead of time, we would not have gone on that particular tour.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 24, 2018 3:23:04 GMT
Yes they sure do! So glad you got out safely Mozzie ! It never ceases to amaze me how people assume they know so much about another to go as far as saying 'what do you know?!' Thanks for sharing about the cult with us! We actually went on a bus tour of our own state years a go and visited the "Palace Of Gold" in Moundsville, W.Va. OH it was gorgeous, but here come to find out, it too was a cult. When the guide was telling us all about it, instead of saying 'this is our belief' he tried to push their belief on the entire tour group. We had some elderly on the tour, and I was so proud of this old guy who stood up for God! We were never so glad to get down off their mountain! Had we known ahead of time, we would not have gone on that particular tour. The old guy was probably speaking for Jesus. God loves everyone, so we are all in a position of our own choosing in regard to what we believe is true. We live and learn.
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Post by Scottish Lassie on Feb 24, 2018 5:00:05 GMT
What do you know about false prophets? Quite a bit actually, I was involved in a sect that I thought was the truth, 20 years I was under their thumb, I know the fear tactics they use, the manipulation they used, the threats they use which they try to hide it by their own reasoning of the scriptures, i have studied the Bible for years, I know the signs of a false prophet spelled out in Mathew Mark Luke. I have felt the sting of a cult and false prophets, they teach their word and not Gods. If the whole Bible is written by man then what has been written is also by man's reasoning of events and what they represent, therefore we are none the wiser.Jesus spoke to the dead, is it alright for him and not alright for us? When the Bible was in the process of being printed, much information that had been handed down through the ages was lost, some even deliberately left out, and all because someone's reasoning mattered. I would say that there is definitely a lot missing that could put a different slant to what we believe. I don't just believe what I read but what my senses also tell me. It does say that in the last days, God will speak to those who are listening and I am certainly listening. The Holy Spirit leads those who love God should they be paying attention and not putting all their thoughts only on the things of this physical life. No one need worry unduly about another person because it is already known whose names are written in the book of life. God knows who loves Him/Her/It. To point the finger is wasted effort, so we will all just hang in there and hope for the best. Each person believes what their senses are telling them at any point in time, so be it.!!!
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