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Post by aubrey on Aug 7, 2010 10:23:12 GMT
I don't know why we're arguing about this. Torture doesn't work, except as a way of recruiting people you'd regard as enemies.
But, if we're going to use Dirty Harry as an example of how it can work - doesn't Harry Callahan look like Clint Eastwood?
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 8, 2010 1:37:46 GMT
First of all waterboarding is not torture. And where did you get the cockamamie idea that waterboarding doesn't work? The evidence shows otherwise. Please do your homework before spouting off.
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 8, 2010 13:22:11 GMT
First of all waterboarding IS torture.
Secondly, the evidence shows clearly that it does NOT work.
Please, BA, try to think for yourself instead of swallowing the pro-terrorist nonsense of the likes of Cheney and Rumsfeld - both conscious TRAITORS to their country and the Free World!
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Post by aubrey on Aug 8, 2010 13:32:00 GMT
I bet you'd soon be singing if someone waterboarded you, BA - any name you could think of - yes, they're terrorists, all of them. I don't care if she's only three, she's a terrorist as well. Planning to blow up the Pentagon.
And you'd change your mind about what constitutes torture, as well.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 9, 2010 0:39:18 GMT
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 9, 2010 4:45:45 GMT
If the intent is to get information both enhanced interrogation ( e.g. waterboarding ) and yes "true torture" are very effective.
Enhanced interrogation should never be misused to obtain confessions!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 9, 2010 12:19:58 GMT
President George W: Bush has published his memoirs and defends the controversial Waterboardingof terrorists as being neccesary to stop terrorist attacks and save lives!www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/8118807/George-W-Bush-waterboarding-terrorists-saved-British-lives.html QUOTE: George W Bush: 'waterboarding' terrorists saved British lives Nov. 9, 2010 George W Bush, the former United States president, has insisted that the "waterboarding" of terrorist suspects by the CIA saved British lives by stopping Islamist attacks on Heathrow and Canary Wharf. In an interview publicising his new book “Decision Points”, Mr Bush vigorously defended waterboarding, a kind of simulated drowning that was known as an “enhanced interrogation technique” by the Bush administration but regarded as “torture” by many opponents, some allies and a few internal dissenters. “Three people were waterboarded and I believe that decision saved lives,” said Mr Bush, who denied that the practice amounted to torture. When asked if he authorised waterboarding to gain information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the captured al-Qaeda leader, he responded: “Damn right!” He writes that although the procedure was "tough", it was legal. The British Government has long viewed waterboarding as torture. Last month, Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, said in a speech that Britain had "nothing whatsoever" to do with torture. The former president told NBC that he was unmoved by international criticism of his administration's waterboarding of terrorist suspects. Asked why he did not agree with many other countries that it was illegal, Mr Bush said: "Because the lawyers said it was legal". He said he was advised it did not "fall under the anti-torture act", adding: "I'm not a lawyer". In an interview with The Times, Mr Bush hailed Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister, as a modern-day Winston Churchill but was dismissive of the significance of British public opinion during the run-up to the Iraq war and subsequently. Mr Bush recalled that when Mr Blair faced a possible Parliamentary vote of no confidence in on the eve of the Iraq invasion he gave him the chance to decide not to send British troops to Iraq because “rather than lose the Government, I would much rather have Tony and his wisdom and his strategic thinking as the prime minister of a strong and important ally”. According to Mr Bush, Mr Blair responded: “I’m in. If it costs the Government, fine.” In the book, Mr Bush also: • Recounts his reaction after a third hijacked plane hit its target, the Pentagon, on September 11th 2001. He writes: “My blood was boiling. We were going to find out who did this, and kick their ass." • Discloses that he ordered the Pentagon to draw up plans an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. • Describes how he considered a covert attack on Syrian nuclear facilities but decided against it when the CIA judged it too risky. Israel carried out a similar attack instead. • Acknowledges he took "too long" to act over the Hurricane Katrina disaster that engulfed New Orleans in 2005, killing more than 1,800 people, but describes being accused of racism (many victims were black) as the lowest point of his presidency.
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Post by Big Lin on Nov 9, 2010 19:28:04 GMT
President George W: Bush has published his memoirs and defends the controversial Waterboardingof terrorists as being neccesary to stop terrorist attacks and save lives!www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/us-politics/8118807/George-W-Bush-waterboarding-terrorists-saved-British-lives.html QUOTE: George W Bush: 'waterboarding' terrorists saved British lives Nov. 9, 2010 George W Bush, the former United States president, has insisted that the "waterboarding" of terrorist suspects by the CIA saved British lives by stopping Islamist attacks on Heathrow and Canary Wharf. In an interview publicising his new book “Decision Points”, Mr Bush vigorously defended waterboarding, a kind of simulated drowning that was known as an “enhanced interrogation technique” by the Bush administration but regarded as “torture” by many opponents, some allies and a few internal dissenters. “Three people were waterboarded and I believe that decision saved lives,” said Mr Bush, who denied that the practice amounted to torture. When asked if he authorised waterboarding to gain information from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the captured al-Qaeda leader, he responded: “Damn right!” He writes that although the procedure was "tough", it was legal. The British Government has long viewed waterboarding as torture. Last month, Sir John Sawers, the head of MI6, said in a speech that Britain had "nothing whatsoever" to do with torture. The former president told NBC that he was unmoved by international criticism of his administration's waterboarding of terrorist suspects. Asked why he did not agree with many other countries that it was illegal, Mr Bush said: "Because the lawyers said it was legal". He said he was advised it did not "fall under the anti-torture act", adding: "I'm not a lawyer". In an interview with The Times, Mr Bush hailed Tony Blair, the former Prime Minister, as a modern-day Winston Churchill but was dismissive of the significance of British public opinion during the run-up to the Iraq war and subsequently. Mr Bush recalled that when Mr Blair faced a possible Parliamentary vote of no confidence in on the eve of the Iraq invasion he gave him the chance to decide not to send British troops to Iraq because “rather than lose the Government, I would much rather have Tony and his wisdom and his strategic thinking as the prime minister of a strong and important ally”. According to Mr Bush, Mr Blair responded: “I’m in. If it costs the Government, fine.” In the book, Mr Bush also: • Recounts his reaction after a third hijacked plane hit its target, the Pentagon, on September 11th 2001. He writes: “My blood was boiling. We were going to find out who did this, and kick their ass." • Discloses that he ordered the Pentagon to draw up plans an attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. • Describes how he considered a covert attack on Syrian nuclear facilities but decided against it when the CIA judged it too risky. Israel carried out a similar attack instead. • Acknowledges he took "too long" to act over the Hurricane Katrina disaster that engulfed New Orleans in 2005, killing more than 1,800 people, but describes being accused of racism (many victims were black) as the lowest point of his presidency. Well, he would, wouldn't he? How often has he been right about anything? Especially when he was under the thumbs of conscious traitors like Cheney and Rumsfeld during his Presidency? Torture is morally wrong and totally ineffective except in terms of giving pleasure to sadists!
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Post by june on Nov 9, 2010 20:15:06 GMT
I agree with Lin.
How anyone can claim that water boarding is not torture I do not know. I'm all for having different opinions but I fear some will claim an Orange is a vegetable just for the look of it.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 10, 2010 1:50:29 GMT
Clearly, waterboarding is not torture.
Torture is cutting off someone's fingers one by one until they talk. Torture is holding someone under water until they either talk or drown.
No one is going to drown or be maimed from waterboarding. The beauty of it is that the terrorist being interrogated thinks he's drowning when he really isn't. That's why it has been so effective.
There have been hundreds of prisoners in Guantanamo. Waterboarding has only been used on three of them. The three worst. The information gained has saved lives.
Arguing against waterboarding is like arguing against success.
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Post by jean on Nov 10, 2010 10:09:25 GMT
No one is going to drown or be maimed from waterboarding. The beauty of it is that the terrorist being interrogated thinks he's drowning when he really isn't. So it is no different from any other sort of torture that stops short of the death of its subject - which it must do if it is to have a hope of extracting any 'information', true or false?
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Nov 13, 2010 2:15:18 GMT
No one is going to drown or be maimed from waterboarding. The beauty of it is that the terrorist being interrogated thinks he's drowning when he really isn't. So it is no different from any other sort of torture that stops short of the death of its subject - which it must do if it is to have a hope of extracting any 'information', true or false? False. It is a method that fools the terrorist into thinking he's being tortured to the death, but actually he won't be harmed. Anyone who has been a real torture victim would gladly trade places with any of the waterboarded terrorists. If you want to know what torture is, I'd suggest you go to one of the torture museums in Europe. For example, Amsterdam (http://www.torturemuseum.com/content.html), San Gimignamo Italy (http://www.corkscrew-balloon.com/misc/torture/21.html), Cordoba Spain (http://www.cordoba24.info/galeriatortura/html/galeria_tortura_en.html), etc. If you live in the London area, you might check out the London Dungeon In the bowels of London Bridge Station this famous waxwork museum of torture focuses on the dark side of life. Stocks, executions, torture machines, rats, plague are the main attractions. Their younger, Paris branch for some reason claims it's the original - we suspect branches will be spring up everywhere, even in your suburb. There a restaurant inside and sometimes nightclubs are held there. Their very atmospheric website gives you a flavour of the place.
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Post by Wonder Woman on Nov 13, 2010 3:39:07 GMT
It is a method that fools the terrorist into thinking he's being tortured to the death, but actually he won't be harmed. Anyone who has been a real torture victim would gladly trade places with any of the waterboarded terrorists. How is it possible to fool someone into thinking they're being tortured, but really we aren't torturing them? Or, if they think they're being tortured to death but we don't kill them then they weren't tortured? There are different degrees of torture, don't you think? You mention that having your fingers cut off is torture (at least I think it was you) but waterboarding isn't. I don't know about you, but I think I'd rather be a few fingers shy than to be convinced that I was being tortured to death. Also, I've heard that people who are being tortured (or just think they are) are very likely to say anything to put an end to the torture (or the torture they only think they're being subjected to) so really there is no gain from (not : torturing terrorists. IMNHO, damaging the psyche can very often be harsher than damaging the body. Meantime, are you the das I know from long-long-long ago?
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Post by sadie1263 on Nov 13, 2010 4:49:21 GMT
Wow.....you really need to go back and look at some of the things written here.....yikes!!
All I have to say is.....you hold me underwater long enough I'll tell you I was Atilla the Hun if that will make you stop......so I don't see how anyone thinks they are going to get ideal info from torture. Maybe you will get real info.....maybe you won't........how many people do you destroy for maybe?
I just think it demonstrates..........."when you look into the abyss the abyss looks back at you"
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Post by Wonder Woman on Nov 13, 2010 4:57:38 GMT
Geepers, all they'd have to do is ask me nicely and I'd tell them you're Atilla the Hun, hon. In fact, if you want me to, I'll swear to it.
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