♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 10, 2009 15:34:07 GMT
This, of course, is the crucial point. It amazes me how women manage to love a child they have conceived as a result of rape, but they do. Anna, the "good seed, bad seed" argument doesn't hold water either; a rapist may have a loving partner somewhere, unaware of his criminal acts, and the child she bears from love comes from the same man with - biologically at least - the same seed. There are plenty of men and women who lie and deceive their partners, and the children born of such trickery are of no less worth than others. I'm no scholar, but I've just re-read Matthew 13 and the parable of the seed. Applying it to rapists is I suppose a possible interpretion but personally I think it is stretching the analogy too far. It certainly wasn't how it was explained in my gels' school, and neither does this interpretation leap from the pages of my Bible! But the parable of the feast does remind me of why I feel uncomfortable about IVF: "ask the poor, the crippled and lame, and so find happiness." (Luke 14: 12) Anna criticised those who have abortions as doing so for "money, convenience and comfort." I don't think she is right, but leaving this aside, I have often felt that IVF is a self-indulgent way to satisfy a desire to have children. There are many needy children already born, awaiting a home; why not consider adopting one of those? If you believe in the "humanness" of the predator in human form, who kidnapped 9 year old Jessica Lunsford! Then abused, tortured and finally buried this little girl alive! Then our views differ radically! Oh! This predator was nice to his drugged out sister, who may have known that the predator was holding Jessica captive and torturing her! No, SkyLark, this predator is a demon in human form and i support the death sentence that was pronounced against this predator and hope it is carried out with Godspeed! Not out of vengeance, but to send a message to other such predators capable of such evil!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 17:59:21 GMT
Anna, I do believe in that everyone has value, despite their deeds. I was brought up on "hate the sin but love the sinner" and such homilies and our early teachings do stick!
But what has that got to do with interpreting Matthew 13? I think Jesus was talking about believers and non-believers - or possibly those who follow the Word and those who don't.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 10, 2009 20:38:50 GMT
Anna, I do believe in that everyone has value, despite their deeds. I was brought up on "hate the sin but love the sinner" and such homilies and our early teachings do stick! But what has that got to do with interpreting Matthew 13? I think Jesus was talking about believers and non-believers - or possibly those who follow the Word and those who don't. Christianity is about loving the sinner and not the sin.. That is correct! BUT Christianity is about loving our fellow human beings and not bonding in any way with Satan or his demonic cohorts! The bad seeds in Matthew 13 are the demonic cohorts!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 20:48:35 GMT
Anna, I haven't been brung up to believe in demons, or their cohorts. It is not part of my culture.
I cannot imagine anything more terrible than the torture and murder of a small child, but who knows what causes a person to commit cruelty? Nature, nurture, could be anything.
Mr Lark had to deal today with a mother of an autistic boy who had attacked a member of his staff. The mother was basically saying "You should learn how to deal with my son!" and perhaps she was right. Mental illness or disability sometimes leads to terrible things, though is no consolation to the victims.
And though we are sometimes called upon to deal with bad actions, is it up to us to judge?
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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 10, 2009 21:40:24 GMT
As someone who finds it difficult to take the hypothesis of a God seriously, the notion of demons appears even more ludicrous and unfounded to me.
It is just about possible - though anything but easy - to reconcile some of the less bizarre aspects of theism with the discoveries of science, the laws of logic and my own personal experience of the world, but though I am prepared to concede that actions and behaviour that I would regard as evil do indeed occur, generally as the result of the intervention of other human beings, I am not prepared to attribute them to the putative kingdoms of Satan and his supposed acolytes.
What makes a person commit an act of wanton cruelty? There are some children who come from families where their 'parents' subject them to horrific abuse and yet they still manage to become useful and kind citizens. Others are spoilt and indulged and yet they turn into monsters.
There simply is no obvious relationship between nurture and criminal or immoral behaviour though of course it is better on general principles for a child to grow up in an atmosphere of love rather than one of brutality and selfishness.
What does seem to be the case is that there is some kind of relationship between such behaviour and the apparent presence of certain genetic defects.
Even there, the alleged link is anything but invariant.
Who knows what makes someone act as they do?
It is however important to remember that circumstances also play a very considerable part.
Hitler, for instance, would have been a forgotten tramp if the Germans had not lost the First World War and thrown out the Kaiser.
Lenin, Stalin and Trotsky would have been as ineffectual as Bakunin or Nechaev had it not been for the corrosive effects of defeat in the same war upon the Russian royal family and aristocracy.
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Post by mikemarshall on Jun 10, 2009 21:48:59 GMT
You should indeed be 'sorry' to 'raise it', ratarsed, because you have no such 'experience' to raise. And please don't equate feminism with 'the likes of UKIP and BNP'. Is it any wonder I have to keep intervening to correct the nonsense you write? As someone who voted for UKIP in the recent European elections, in spite of a number of serious doubts about certain aspects of their policies, I have to say that, whatever other criticisms of them it is possible to make, it is NOT valid to compare them with the BNP. Nor is it remotely sensible to compare 'feminism' with either of the two parties. The BNP, in spite of its attempts to sanitise itself, remains a racist party, committed to the supremacy of the white race and championing what it calls 'assisted voluntary repatriation' of non-white inhabitants of Britain. UKIP does NOT and never HAS done so. Nor - apart from the lunatic fringes of the eco-feminist weirdos, found for some obscure reason mainly in Finland - Penti Linkola - I am not certain if I spelt his name correctly - and a few 'feminists' in Finland who adopt equally extreme views - is it common to find an espousal of feminism in the same breath as the espousal of racial hatred. As someone who is married to a gypsy, I can assure you that I would be the first to condemn any such 'ideas.' It is true that lunatics such as Andrea Dworkin and Valerie Solanas spoke of men in terms that could easily, with a little substitution of words, sound like the ravings of 'Mein Kampf.' It is however equally true that such views are generally rejected by 90% of women calling themselves feminists and of course rightly so. Men and women are equal and it is absurd to suggest that, except in the specific area of childbearing, there is any fundamental difference between the sexes. Ratarsed, it really is time that you got out more and actually acquainted yourself with a few human beings rather than dwelling in the cartoon-like universe that you appear to inhabit, where 'feminists' are dastardly villains with as much connection with real living and breathing females as the Jews and gypsies of the real world had with the mythical demons who lived in the diseased brains of Hitler and Streicher.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 11, 2009 4:24:25 GMT
I am prepared to concede that actions and behaviour that I would regard as evil do indeed occur, generally as the result of the intervention of other human beings, I am not prepared to attribute them to the putative kingdoms of Satan and his supposed acolytes. What makes a person commit an act of wanton cruelty? There are some children who come from families where their 'parents' subject them to horrific abuse and yet they still manage to become useful and kind citizens. Others are spoilt and indulged and yet they turn into monsters. There simply is no obvious relationship between nurture and criminal or immoral behaviour though of course it is better on general principles for a child to grow up in an atmosphere of love rather than one of brutality and selfishness. . Since you believe in the existence of evil we do share a common belief! Do you ever wonder why those who indulge in "evil acts" enjoy committing these acts? How can torturing and murdering a child be "rewarding" for some? Why do evil people lust to repeat their cruelties in an even more horrific form? I believe though that the truly evil demonic predators in human form are numerically a minority! The Bible does have examples of good people committing an evil act! King David committed murder because he desired another man's wife, Bathsheba. King David was punished for his act and later forgiven. Not all "evildoers" are truly evil, but some are!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Jun 11, 2009 4:35:53 GMT
Anna, I haven't been brung up to believe in demons, or their cohorts. It is not part of my culture. I cannot imagine anything more terrible than the torture and murder of a small child, but who knows what causes a person to commit cruelty? Nature, nurture, could be anything. Mr Lark had to deal today with a mother of an autistic boy who had attacked a member of his staff. The mother was basically saying "You should learn how to deal with my son!" and perhaps she was right. Mental illness or disability sometimes leads to terrible things, though is no consolation to the victims. And though we are sometimes called upon to deal with bad actions, is it up to us to judge? True! We can make mistakes when we are forced to judge! We have to run this risk or evil will simply take over! Christ said of the deceived masses who cried out to have him crucified.. "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do!" Yes, if you read the Bible attentively there are mitigating circumstances for those who have been misled. He did condemn those, who incited the masses and conspired to have him murdered as evil vipers. The belief in the "existence of evil" is considered by many to be simply "unscientific".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2009 5:51:40 GMT
What makes a person commit an act of wanton cruelty? There are some children who come from families where their 'parents' subject them to horrific abuse and yet they still manage to become useful and kind citizens. Others are spoilt and indulged and yet they turn into monsters. There simply is no obvious relationship between nurture and criminal or immoral behaviour though of course it is better on general principles for a child to grow up in an atmosphere of love rather than one of brutality and selfishness. What does seem to be the case is that there is some kind of relationship between such behaviour and the apparent presence of certain genetic defects. Even there, the alleged link is anything but invariant. Who knows what makes someone act as they do? . That is interesting, Mike, because we are told tht most child abusers have been abused themselves. Now of course, this could be because they share the genes of their parents - but that doesn't account for those who were abused in children's homes.
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Post by Liberator on Jun 22, 2009 11:16:42 GMT
It works with animals so I don't see why it shouldn't work with human beings - treat them bad and they grow up vicious. Treat them well and they grow up accepting that as 'natural'. Over-indulge them of course and then you get a different sort of problem.
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Post by Liberator on Jun 22, 2009 13:26:49 GMT
Ratarsed, it really is time that you got out more and actually acquainted yourself with a few human beings rather than dwelling in the cartoon-like universe that you appear to inhabit, where 'feminists' are dastardly villains with as much connection with real living and breathing females as the Jews and gypsies of the real world had with the mythical demons who lived in the diseased brains of Hitler and Streicher. Exactly. I find the half dozen or fewer people who call themselves 'feminists' on these boards for the most exactly such self-made caricatures with no relevance to real people and they don't like being told so. I frequent too many feminist sites to have much time for this lot.
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