♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 17, 2010 18:00:53 GMT
Here we can discuss whether or not homosexuality is genetically inevitable in some people or the result of education, environment or chance.
A boy once took an egg from a crow's nest and hatched it. The baby crow immediately bonded with him and people in general. The boy soon moved out of the neighborhood and the crow remained in the neighborhood trying to bond with humans. The story of this crow had a very unhappy ending. I think we all agree that the crow would have developed normally, if it was allowed to grow up as a normal crow.
The human mind is of course much more complicated, but is there perhaps a bonding center in the human brain, which if activated one way or the other would influence or determine a person's "emotional bonding orientation"?
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 21, 2010 11:58:08 GMT
The supporters of the belief that homosexuality is inborn, e.g. the result of genetics or is somehow predetermined, use studies such as this one below to support their belief. So far no other scientific research group has confirmed the findings of this study from Amsterdam. If this study is accurate the enlarged "suprachiasmatic nucleus" in the brains of male homosexuals may have developped after birth, due to some non-genetic or non-predetermined cause! www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-4835YY2-1PM&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1169595190&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=21a98b0c0f494f1595ef36fe527773ff QUOTE: An enlarged suprachiasmatic nucleus in homosexual men References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article. D.F. Swaab, a and M.A. Hofmana aNetherlands Institute for Brain Research, Amsterdam, The Netherlands 7 March 2003. Abstract Morphometric analysis of the human hypothalamus revealed that the volume of the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) in homosexual men is 1.7 times as large as that of a reference group of male subjects and contains 2.1 times as many cells. In another hypothalamic nucleus which is located in the immediate vicinity of the SCN, the sexually dimorphic nucleus (SDN), no such differences in either volume or cell number were found. The SDN data indicate the selectivity of the enlarged SCN in homosexual men, but do not support the hypothesis that homosexual men have a ‘female hypothalamus’.
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Post by mouse on Jan 21, 2010 13:44:36 GMT
am sure its inborn from some...but for others its experimentation or choice... read of a girl abused by her step father..she only has relationships with women as she distrusts men...says she feels safer with women even though she finds sex with men more fullfilling....sex and relationships being two different things which sounds more like choice than inclination
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 22, 2010 3:37:25 GMT
am sure its inborn from some...but for others its experimentation or choice... read of a girl abused by her step father..she only has relationships with women as she distrusts men...says she feels safer with women even though she finds sex with men more fullfilling....sex and relationships being two different things which sounds more like choice than inclination Hi Mouse! I think some people do have an inborn inclination to be homosexual and other people just seem to be born with the conviction that homosexuality is the most alien, unnatural type of relationship possible! You're very correct in that female victims of male sex abuse often turn towards Lesbianism.
The US news program "60 Minutes" had an interesting report on some of the factors other than environment and choice that may play a role in the development of homosexuality. I'm sure the research can be challenged, but it's thought provoking.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jan 24, 2010 3:40:46 GMT
I have a nephew who is gay. I think the world of him. He's a great guy, responsible family member, gregarious, successful in his career, and open about his sexuality. He lives in San Diego and is in a gay marriage. His, ahem, husband is a chemist with one of the big drug companies. They have a fairly high combined income and a pleasant lifestyle. They don't march in gay parades or do anything to offend others. They're good people.
My nephew was popular in high school and a good looking guy. He was raised in a small town in southern Oregon. He was a boy scout, 4H, and a good student. He took the prettiest girl to his high school prom dance.
But as he was reaching maturity he came to realize that he was different. The girls that his friends hungered for didn't ring his chime. Instead, he was titillated by a good looking young men. That's when he came to realize that he was gay.
Definitely born that way. His wires were crossed at birth.
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jan 25, 2010 5:53:51 GMT
Hi Das! I believe too that some people are born with a powerful tendency at least to become homosexual. I was very moved by this YouTube video, posted below, from a young woman, who is suffering because of her homosexuality and wishes that a cure could be found! Certainly no one who feels well adjusted as a homosexual should be changed against their will. I feel a strong compassion for this young woman on the YouTube video and hope she can be helped!
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Post by lindylou on Jan 26, 2010 18:33:06 GMT
From what I've seen and read, I'd have to say that most homosexuals are probably born that way. Some of the nicest people I've know (both sexes) have been homosexuals. Life certainly isn't easy for many, but then I suppose life isn't easy for a lot of people with other totally unrelated issues.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 29, 2010 23:46:12 GMT
Lindylou, you've only just joined us but on the basis of your first three posts I can see you're going to be a real asset to this board.
Thanks for joining us!
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Post by beth on Jan 30, 2010 6:04:07 GMT
Just from gay people I know and have known, I'd guess most are born gay, but some choose to join because they are attracted to the life style. I don't think a "group" can be so easily pinned down and labeled by demography and stats. People are complex individuals.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 30, 2010 1:13:02 GMT
There are always people around, who are offended by the testimony of this woman, who describes how she was freed from homosexuality by her conversion to the teachings of Jesus Christ!
I suppose it's a lot easier too to have an open mind than a open heart!
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Post by beth on Mar 30, 2010 2:36:45 GMT
There are always people around, who are offended by the testimony of this woman, who describes how she was freed from homosexuality by her conversion to the teachings of Jesus Christ!
I suppose it's a lot easier too to have an open mind than a open heart! Offended - of course not. Skeptical - You bet.
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 30, 2010 7:03:57 GMT
Confused as to why homosexuality is regarded as something people need to be 'set free from' in the first place.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 7:23:13 GMT
Confused as to why homosexuality is regarded as something people need to be 'set free from' in the first place. Well, quite! But Wiki summarises the research into a possible biological cause, and I found this interesting reading: Biology and sexual orientation is the subject of research into the role of biology in the development of human sexual orientation. No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, but research suggests that it is by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[1] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.[2] Biological factors which may be related to the development of a heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual orientation include genes, prenatal hormones, and brain structure.
(read on.)
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Post by mouse on Mar 30, 2010 8:38:34 GMT
Confused as to why homosexuality is regarded as something people need to be 'set free from' in the first place. never heard any one say ""when i grow up i want to be a homosexual"" how ever...other than those who dabble and experiment...i dint think people are homosexual by choice and certainly not in the past where in some societies their lives were made an absolute misery if they were outed the average human wants to be part of not out side the ""clan"" the Amerind had a really good attitude to homosexuality..they were not targetted..but just accepted the lady boys on the whole but didn't accept them as ""real men"" but most societies ancient and modern see homosexuality as an aberration[nothing to do with the abrahmic religions which is often blamed for anti homosexuality]and even when homosexuality has been quite prevalent or practiced by the men at the top[eg Alexander] its still been seen as iffy Parts of roman society were at times about as debased as a society can be yet the poet Catullus gives a good insight into the roman attitude where many men kept a boy for pleasure ...even there it was a matter for gossip and snide remarks
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 3, 2011 17:49:19 GMT
It did strike me as very suspicious that an eight year old boy who is the adopted child of a lesbian couple should wish to become a girl, if it happens in one pseudo-family then it can happen in others ! Toby, you do realize that it's heterosexual couples who produce homosexual children, right? I mean, if we are pointing the finger at this lesbian couple who actually may have adopted a child who is transgendered, we should also be pointing the finger at heterosexual couples who keep having these children. And FYI, as a person who has worked with the LGBT community, children know from a very early age that they are different, whether it be if they are gay or transgendered. However most of them don't say anything because they are afraid of what their 'normal' parents might think, or not accept them. Maybe this girl was comfortable telling her adoptive lesbian parents that she was born into the wrong body without being judged. Maybe she knew they would be more accepting. Discussion from: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=ethics&thread=2851&page=7#42444 Dearest Lauren! This discussion should be continued here:
You must admit that many homosexuals grew up with a single parent of the opposite sex. That strongly implies that the child was perhaps imprinted with the libibinal desires as well as perhaps the gender identity of that parent as in Toby's example. The PC correct mantra that all these children were "born that way" and by some strange coincidence many of them had single parents of the opposite sex just makes me believe that GID, homosexuality can be "imprinted" in some cases and not inborn.
Nothing against loving parents raising an opposite sex child!
You seem to agree that sexual abuse traumas involving the opposite sex can also lead to a homosexual imprintation!
I'm starting to regret using the word "Learned" in the thread title here! We're not talking about an intentional process for the large part, but more of an "imprintation" or osmosis like influence.
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Post by jihu on Oct 3, 2011 18:24:14 GMT
When I was a boy scout, (When dinosaurs roamed and all movies were black, white and gray.) we had a gay kid in our troop. We made fun of him, but he never changed. The last I saw of him, "Johnny" was a drag queen in San Francisco.
Johnny was a sissy, and the Hawaiian word for a gay man is "mahu", so he was a mahu to us. He was beaten by his parents, who wanted him to be straight, and put with boys, so he could learn what boys are supposed to be like. Nothing changed him. If anyone told me that Johnny "chose" to be gay, I would tell you that only an idiot would choose to be abused, both physically and mentally by his own family and his peers.
Can any of us straight people truthfully say we could "choose" to become gay??? I don't think so. Can you give up your wife for the love of a man? Or your husband for the love of a woman? Only if you are gay, or bisexual you can. Jihu
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Oct 3, 2011 19:40:26 GMT
When I was a boy scout, (When dinosaurs roamed and all movies were black, white and gray.) we had a gay kid in our troop. We made fun of him, but he never changed. The last I saw of him, "Johnny" was a drag queen in San Francisco. Johnny was a sissy, and the Hawaiian word for a gay man is "mahu", so he was a mahu to us. He was beaten by his parents, who wanted him to be straight, and put with boys, so he could learn what boys are supposed to be like. Nothing changed him. If anyone told me that Johnny "chose" to be gay, I would tell you that only an idiot would choose to be abused, both physically and mentally by his own family and his peers. Can any of us straight people truthfully say we could "choose" to become gay??? I don't think so. Can you give up your wife for the love of a man? Or your husband for the love of a woman? Only if you are gay, or bisexual you can. Jihu Hi Jihu! Good post! I don't think anyone, except maybe victims of horrific sexual abuse from the opposite sex consciously choose to become homosexual.
Inborn, imprintation or slow but steady subliminal influences are probably the rule! A conscious and deliberate choice to become a homosexual and learn how to be one is a theoretical exception to the rule here.
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Post by jihu on Oct 3, 2011 19:58:20 GMT
Hi Anna, As old as I am, I can still remember my childhood. We boys all stuck together, and had our interests even before puberty, then we started getting interested in girls. Johnny was the only gay that we knew of in our neighborhood, although we used to see some around. He wasn't interested in sports, and I think his parents didn't allow him to play with "girl toys" such as dolls, and dishes, but he loved to dance like the girls did.
We were young, and coudn't understand homosexuality, so we picked on this sissy, and we were mean to him. Maybe it was our way of trying to do what his parents tried and failed to do, maybe it was just meanness on our parts.
In my older age, I understand them a little better. I am glad none of my children are gay, because I know what Johnny went through in his life. The harrassment, and the verbal and physical abuse that he suffered from everyone, except, perhaps his own kind.
I don't think our young people are any better than we were, except for the fact that many gays are no longer in the closet. Jihu
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Post by Lauren on Oct 6, 2011 12:28:31 GMT
Good post! I don't think anyone, except maybe victims of horrific sexual abuse from the opposite sex consciously choose to become homosexual. Inborn, imprintation or slow but steady subliminal influences are probably the rule! A conscious and deliberate choice to become a homosexual and learn how to be one is a theoretical exception to the rule here. [/color][/size][/quote] I still strongly disagree (except in the very rare cases where some people conciously chose to be homosexual because of abuse) that homosexuality can be imprinted on someone, or become homosexual through subliminal influences. If we make the argument that we conciously chose whether or not to be homosexual (whether it be through implantation or subliminal messages) then we also have to make the argument that we are all born asexual, and the proper way to be is asexual, and that imprintation and 'subliminal influences' is what makes us either heterosexual or homosexual. Of course this is not true. We are all born with a sexual predisposition. The majority of people are heterosexual, and the minority is either homosexual or asexual.
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Post by Lauren on Oct 6, 2011 12:31:51 GMT
I don't think our young people are any better than we were, except for the fact that many gays are no longer in the closet. That is only true if their parents teach them to hate homosexuals, which sadly, most parents do. Remember, we are all born a blank slate. We know neither how to hate or love. We are taught that.
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