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Post by Big Lin on Sept 3, 2012 22:06:39 GMT
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Post by Hunny on Sept 5, 2012 11:53:11 GMT
Well, I confess I have known zero about Gypsies. So I've read these articles you posted twice now. I had tried Wikipedia but it wasn't much help. This was though. It's given me some idea, some insight. Though I still don't quite get why gypsies imagine themselves as separate from whatever country they're living in. But i would think that, being in the United States where everyone is from somewhere else but we've all agreed to just call ourselves "Americans" and act like each other. *shrug* Yea, I guess I don't truly understand. But thanks for posting these. If you post more I'll read those too and try to 'get it' better
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Post by Big Lin on Sept 5, 2012 19:29:26 GMT
Oh, Hunny, it's a difficult question to answer.
In the first place there are the Romanies - we ARE an ethnic group that's spread out all over the world.
They vary widely (not to say wildly) depending on where they live and the sort of background they live in.
For instance, I've never met ANY American Romanies in real life (and only a couple online) but from what I've heard and read about them they're mainly confined to one area of America and they don't seem to have quite the same attitude towards the non-gypsy world as most other Roma do.
One US police officer described them as 'making the Mafia look like an open society.'
Then there are the British Romanies, the ones I know best and the ones from where I come.
To be honest there aren't that many pure-blooded Roma left in Britain any more. Most of us (like me) have intermarried with the general population. Some have abandoned the life altogether and become like any other Brit; some have tried to keep it going as best they can (like me); and some have tried to continue living a full-blown Romani life.
I'm what's called a posh-rat (half-blood; half-breed if you like) because my Mum married a non-Roma.
Most of the British Romanies are pretty well diddakai (with Romani blood in them but not pure Roma) more than anything else.
Other than British Romanies the ones I know best are the Spanish, Portuguese and Turkish Roma. The Turkish Roma live in Istanbul and have been there for centuries. They keep themselves to themselves but of course we chatted a lot when I lived in Turkey.
The Portuguese Roma are a bit downtrodden but they are quite likeable. Poor but pretty good people.
Spanish Romanies vary; they can range from the predatory to the totally lovable. Most of them are pretty similar to the Portuguese ones.
Then there are the Romanian lot. First of all they had to put up with the Nazis trying to exterminate them; then with years of Communism; then with the racists who took over after Ceausescu finally got kicked out.
They are pretty dodgy because they've never known anything but the state as an enemy and the society around them as an enemy so they've learned to survive by becoming predatory upon the gadge (non-gypsy) population.
There are a few other Romani tribes in Britain but not many; mostly Czechs and the same thing is true of them as it is of the Romanians, I'm afraid.
then there are the Welsh travellers; often they've intermarried with our people and a LOT of Cale Romanies have settled in Wales over the centuries so the result is that the Welsh travellers have adopted a lot of our lifestyle and follow the law of the brothers more than any other travelling group.
Then there are the Scottish travellers; not quite as close to us as the Welsh ones but far closer than the Irish travellers are.
Then there are the Scottish tinkers; a different bunch altogether. Quite nice people but not really following the law of the brothers at all.
Then there are the Irish travellers; very much predatory upon the non-traveller population and of course most of the bad press WE get is down to things that THEY get up to.
Why do we want to hold on to our traditions and way of life?
Why not?
We've followed them for two thousand years; our ancestors are first recorded in India and then in Byzantium and so across Europe and North Africa.
The degree of 'separateness' varies of course among individuals as well as among vitsas (tribes).
As a Basque Cale who also has Kalderash blood in me (as well as Irish on my Dad's side) I'm born and bred in Britain and proud to call myself British.
I've got MANY identities; a Londoner, English, British, European, female, mother, wife, poet, citizen of the world AND a Romani.
To me there's no need for my loyalties to conflict. I'm proud to be a gypsy just as I'm proud to be British, a Londoner and so on.
Just like you can be a proud Texan or New Yorker without thinking you can't also be a proud American so I can be a proud Romani without thinking I can't also be a proud Brit.
Don't know if that answers your question but I'm happy to write more about things if you like.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Sept 6, 2012 3:03:16 GMT
That was a good explanation Lin. Thanks for putting it up here.
Sounds to me like the Romanis are gradually being integrated into European society(s). It will happen faster in a country like the UK, and slower in a place like Romania.
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Post by Hunny on Sept 6, 2012 11:36:37 GMT
thank you
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