♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 26, 2012 6:56:57 GMT
www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/25/complaints-cause-atheist-funded-billboards-in-north-carolina-to-come-down/ QUOTE: Complaints cause atheist-funded billboards in North Carolina to come downAugust 25, 2012 FoxNews.com American Atheists and Adams Outdoor Advertising are reportedly removing two Charlotte billboards blasting Christianity and Mormonism following an outpouring of complaints and threats. The Bradenton Herald report that the billboards, which targeted the faiths of President Barack Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney, went up two weeks ago and were intended to be displayed for the duration of the national conventions. Amanda Knief, managing director of American Atheists, said a report from Fox News on Wednesday about the billboards led to a national outpouring of "vitriol, threats and hate speech against our staff, volunteers and Adams Outdoor Advertising." If Adams Outdoor Advertising had not been involved, American Atheists would have kept the billboards in place, Knief said. "It was a mutual decision between us and Adams Advertising for the safety and interests of both organizations that the billboards come down," Knief said. Knief declined to say the severity of the threats made against the New Jersey-based atheist organization, but said the Cranford police department had been contacted. The general manager of Adams Outdoor Advertising's Charlotte branch, Kevin Madrzykowski, did not immediately return phone calls Friday. But the company's website issued a statement saying that the company "stands behind our position that the ability to express one's opinion is a right and a privilege of our democratic society. However, due to the public response to the messaging, the American Atheists have agreed to remove the advertising copy in question in Charlotte."
|
|
|
Post by chips on Aug 26, 2012 11:26:17 GMT
My belief in God is mine, I don't advertise it or promote it but I will never deny my beliefs.
The last thing we need is another nut-case organization like the American athiests stirring up sh*t in a subject in which they have no belief.
Defeats the purpose of their organisation.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 26, 2012 12:33:23 GMT
Well, on the one hand, billboards that say "Jesus Saves" are obnoxious - to an atheist, and they have just as much right to their beliefs, and to not be put down OR denied free expression.
But on the other hand, these billboards were a bit nasty. They must have known they'd come across as hateful. They were hateful. I'd have been happy with just "Christianity: it's not real!" and then a little "American Atheists" at the bottom. At least that would have just expressed an opinion. But they didn't do that they called them bigots etc, which is hostile and defamatory.
So even though I'm an atheist, I didn't like those billboards either.
It seems to me somewhere I heard the idea that you don't convert people to your way by hammering them with demands about it, or opposing them at all!, you just simply be the thing you wish to advance, and if it is a good and enviable thing, people will see that, and want it too. ..Atheists should just do that. After all, there's no such thing as "atheism", it's not a belief system, it's just the lack of a belief system, so why are they even advertising it looking for.."members"?? I don't think I like the American Atheists.
There was a time in my life when i used to try and talk people out of their -what to me were "silly beliefs". And one day I finally succeeded with someone, and I can tell you it wasn't a victory,. I felt downright bad for it. (No no, religious people, not because God Schmod, no; because someone had a nice comforting understanding of their existence, a peace with the inevitability of dying, and the frailties and tragedies which can befall a life...and even though it was imaginary, they had that, and I took it away!
That wasn't nice of me. Let people have their illusions. Who isn't operating on almost 100% illusions of perception anyway.
No...it's not right to combat Christianity. This organization is just a mean-spirited political group as far as I can tell. (It is "mean-spirited" to be AGAINST ..anything, actually. They should just walk the walk, and let others tread their paths.
|
|
|
Post by mikemarshall on Aug 26, 2012 14:38:08 GMT
I have always found one of the most baffling aspects of human nature the perverse propensity that humans possess to confuse their opinions with facts and to seek to impose them on other people.
Coercion does not always have to be physical or even positively intimidating; even on the 'intellectual' level those for whom the eristic pursuit of 'victory' in a clash of opinions matters more than the genuine and open-minded pursuit of truth are too ready to employ utterly specious arguments, argumenta ad hominem and in general to behave in a fashion that is utterly irrational and bigoted.
Atheists, as the examples of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others show clearly, are every bit as capable of showing fanaticism, intolerance and a repressive cruelty as the most bigoted religious believer.
My objection to all those who seek to oppress others is that they are morally and intellectually bankrupt. It makes no difference whether or not it is an atheist or a religious believer engaged in dishonest arguments, attempts to coerce obeisance to their creed or at least force an outward conformity.
I have heard atheists - particularly on American message boards - actually call for the outlawing of the practice of religion altogether. I would no more support that than I would the theocratic utopias of the religious fundamentalists.
As Montaigne said, 'it is rating our conjectures too highly to burn people at the stake for them.'
What he said then in the Renaissance remains as valid today as when he uttered those words.
I am NOT a religious believer but it would be both foolish and dishonest to ignore the positive contributions to society made by religious believers as well as the negative ones.
Whether it is atheism or religious belief the aspect that horrifies me is the fanaticism.
Fanatics of any persuasion always end up doing more harm than good.
Better by far to take the course of agnosticism.
After all, atheism, like theism, IMO presumes too much and confuses knowledge with opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 26, 2012 14:48:59 GMT
I have always found one of the most baffling aspects of human nature the perverse propensity that humans possess to confuse their opinions with facts and to seek to impose them on other people. Coercion does not always have to be physical or even positively intimidating; even on the 'intellectual' level those for whom the eristic pursuit of 'victory' in a clash of opinions matters more than the genuine and open-minded pursuit of truth are too ready to employ utterly specious arguments, argumenta ad hominem and in general to behave in a fashion that is utterly irrational and bigoted. Atheists, as the examples of Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others show clearly, are every bit as capable of showing fanaticism, intolerance and a repressive cruelty as the most bigoted religious believer. My objection to all those who seek to oppress others is that they are morally and intellectually bankrupt. It makes no difference whether or not it is an atheist or a religious believer engaged in dishonest arguments, attempts to coerce obeisance to their creed or at least force an outward conformity. I have heard atheists - particularly on American message boards - actually call for the outlawing of the practice of religion altogether. I would no more support that than I would the theocratic utopias of the religious fundamentalists. As Montaigne said, 'it is rating our conjectures too highly to burn people at the stake for them.' What he said then in the Renaissance remains as valid today as when he uttered those words. I am NOT a religious believer but it would be both foolish and dishonest to ignore the positive contributions to society made by religious believers as well as the negative ones. Whether it is atheism or religious belief the aspect that horrifies me is the fanaticism. Fanatics of any persuasion always end up doing more harm than good. Better by far to take the course of agnosticism. After all, atheism, like theism, IMO presumes too much and confuses knowledge with opinion. So you define atheism as those who believe there is no God? (I see it as just meaning "not religious" ...I call myself atheist, but I can't say there's no God of some type...I don't know that. Who knows that? I really like your comment by the way. It's a nice piece you just typed for us. I enjoy the intelligence. You're up for MoM this month (against Chips), you know. Maybe you should stick around and kiss some hands and shake some babies! (oops, the other way around, isnt it (well..depends on the politician) ;D
|
|
|
Post by chips on Aug 26, 2012 21:58:53 GMT
Why? Athiests don't believe in a God so why would such a poster be obnoxious? Do you know during a discussion with a friend many years ago they said, "The only reason people become offended is because they want to be." When you think about it, that is so true.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 26, 2012 23:45:52 GMT
Why? Athiests don't believe in a God so why would such a poster be obnoxious? Do you know during a discussion with a friend many years ago they said, "The only reason people become offended is because they want to be." When you think about it, that is so true. Em, well sometimes what one is faced with truly is unpalatable. But a grown person can remain unbothered. It's a choice, yea. To an atheist, Christianity is ...well it seems childish and nuts and it embarrasses us that full grown adults believe in fairy stories, so -feeling that way-when confronted with a "Jesus loves you" it kind of curdles our insides (makes us think "yuck"). I'm only sharing this because you asked why. This is why. This is what atheists typically perceive. Of course there's a difference between thinking it and saying it. I normally try never to say these things. I don't like to demean anyone or harm their feelings. These people with the billboard however.....well i don't think they mind disparaging others. They're kind of out to have a war.
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Aug 27, 2012 0:02:50 GMT
I can't see why a poster saying 'Jesus Saves' would be any more obnoxious to an atheist than one saying 'Father Christmas saves' or 'The Tooth Fairy saves.'
Sorry, I just think that the atheists are getting their knickers in a twist about a non-issue and trying to ram their own opinions down everyone else's throat in the same intolerant way that religious fundamentalists do.
You don't have to be religious to be intolerant and repressive; plenty of atheists are both those things!
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Aug 27, 2012 7:58:00 GMT
kiss some hands and shake some babies!
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Aug 27, 2012 8:21:48 GMT
Looking at the posters, I wouldn't want them around. Negative campaigning for the sake of it. I can't see the point.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 27, 2012 12:51:29 GMT
I can't see why a poster saying 'Jesus Saves' would be any more obnoxious to an atheist than one saying 'Father Christmas saves' or 'The Tooth Fairy saves.' Because, as opposed to Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, Christianity is responsible for 2,000 years of obscene wrongdoings. It's very damaging to our society even now. Most of the time, if there's an argument, it's because someone is thinking "the bible says so"..I'm kind of sick of it and wish as a species we could grow up. It really does embarrass me. If the aliens ever do land on earth, I'm going to have to step aside, and say "I'm not with them". Again - I don't offer this because I feel the need to say it, it's just that someone asked how or why atheists think, and I happen to know. My statements on religion should only be taken as that.
|
|
|
Post by Big Lin on Aug 27, 2012 13:04:43 GMT
I can't see why a poster saying 'Jesus Saves' would be any more obnoxious to an atheist than one saying 'Father Christmas saves' or 'The Tooth Fairy saves.' Because, as opposed to Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, Christianity is responsible for 2,000 years of obscene wrongdoings. It's very damaging to our society even now. Most of the time, if there's an argument, it's because someone is thinking "the bible says so"..I'm kind of sick of it and wish as a species we could grow up. It really does embarrass me. If the aliens ever do land on earth, I'm going to have to step aside, and say "I'm not with them". Again - I don't offer this because I feel the need to say it, it's just that someone asked how or why atheists think, and I happen to know. My statements on religion should only be taken as that. I think that overall Christianity's impact on civilisation has been more positive than negative. Only religious fundamentalists argue on the basis of the Bible; liberal Christians like me only use it to buttress an argument if we're arguing with fellow-believers. And Marxism was responsible for a much larger amount of obscene wrongdoings and even now plenty of people are silly enough to believe in its ideas. I think there's a certain amount of truth in what Chesterton said 'when people stop believing in God they believe in anything.' Religious feelings are a way of expressing our awe at the universe. There's NO logical reason why that should lead on to any kind of fanaticism or cruelty. I'm (except where genuine problems are created) in favour of a live and let live libertarian liberalism. To me atheists trying to suppress religious belief or drive it underground are just as mistaken and dangerous as religious fundamentalists who want to impose their views on others.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 27, 2012 13:08:13 GMT
Religious feelings are a way of expressing our awe at the universe. There's NO logical reason why that should lead on to any kind of fanaticism or cruelty. I'm (except where genuine problems are created) in favour of a live and let live libertarian liberalism. Oh I can't argue with that
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Aug 27, 2012 14:39:31 GMT
Whatever my beliefs are......they are my beliefs. If I want people to respect that.....I have to respect theirs.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Aug 27, 2012 16:11:49 GMT
Whatever my beliefs are......they are my beliefs. If I want people to respect that.....I have to respect theirs. We have a saying, at a place I used to go....that people "tread innumerable paths to spiritual wholeness". Everyone's path is right. Right for them. No one should impinge, denigrate or seek to destroy that. As I pointed to earlier, no matter how an individual imagines about "God" and existence, it does give them their comfort, in a way they developed for themselves. All I really find awful about Christianity is things that happened in history: burning and torturing women and cats; crusading, destroying other societies because they believe only they know what's right, and again, oppressing women...oppressing us into virtual personless slavery, teaching that the men are the real humans, and we just their "fit helpers" -scripture used to rationalize denying us education, respect, the right to speak for ourselves, more. It's taken well over 2,000 years for that situation to finally be corrected. There's actually a lot in history that was despicable. But we live in the now. And in the now, we should judge or respond only to what gets done and happens now. And can I just focus on good things in the religion? Oh yes. But as a youngster no. I railed against it then. It took doing that, to learn... I guess that was me treading my "path to wholeness". For I have learned what prayer really is, and what it means to turn the other cheek, and I see much good example to throw in people's faces...em ;D , I mean, to emulate, in Jesus' teachings and behavior..the example it sets is good for us all. There is a lot of good. And we are growing. I'm more horrified of late with what Islam is doing...things like killing people for blaspheming, teaching jihad, stoning women to death because they got raped, etc etc etc. THAT is in the now. (I feel fortunate that I don't live in the midst of it. They'd surely have killed me for my reactions to their ways.) Will they grow out of that and catch up? Geez I hope so. One of my worst fears is a war between east and west, between us and Islam. Would it do any good for an atheist to 'pray' , in such matters? Well...I don't believe in a being that I could pray to. I only know that in the longer view of history, things will work out, and that we live in a time more primitive than our technological advancements indicate. I only can wish to be a good link...in the long chain. I can only seek to live as an example, and not hammer at anyone, but be gentle and encouraging. And you know what? It might even have been from reading the new testament when i was young that taught me to be that way So you have my respect I wouldn't seek to put down or change anyone's way to spirituality. (spirituality is something atheists can have and understand.... a-theist just means "not religious", it shouldn't mean " against religion", and it shouldn't preclude us from being aware that the universe is a mystery beyond any of us, and we seem to be connected as one, and helping others helps ourselves, and that stuff..to me that's "God"! ...in my vague, generic, uncertain way.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 27, 2012 16:40:49 GMT
Whatever my beliefs are......they are my beliefs. If I want people to respect that.....I have to respect theirs. We have a saying, at a place I used to go....that people "tread innumerable paths to spiritual wholeness". Everyone's path is right. Right for them. No one should impinge, denigrate or seek to destroy that. As I pointed to earlier, no matter how an individual imagines about "God" and existence, it does give them their comfort, in a way they developed for themselves. All I really find awful about Christianity is things that happened in history: burning and torturing women and cats; crusading, destroying other societies because they believe only they know what's right, and again, oppressing women...oppressing us into virtual personless slavery, teaching that the men are the real humans, and we just their "fit helpers" -scripture used to rationalize denying us education, respect, the right to speak for ourselves, more. It's taken well over 2,000 years for that situation to finally be corrected. There's actually a lot in history that was despicable. But we live in the now. And in the now, we should judge or respond only to what gets done and happens now. And can I just focus on good things in the religion? Oh yes. But as a youngster no. I railed against it then. It took doing that, to learn... I guess that was me treading MY "path to wholeness". For I have learned what prayer really is, and what it means to turn the other cheek, and I see much good example to throw in people's faces...em ;D , I mean, to emulate, in Jesus' teachings and behavior..the example it sets is good for us all. There is a lot of good. And we are growing. I'm more horrified of late with what Islam is doing...things like killing people for blaspheming, teaching jihad, stoning women to death because they got raped, etc etc etc. THAT is in the now. (I feel fortunate that I don't live in the midst of it. They'd surely have killed me for my reactions to their ways.) Will they grow out of that and catch up? Geez I hope so. One of my worst fears is a war between east and west, between us and Islam. Would it do any good for an atheist to 'pray' , in such matters? Well...I don't believe in a being that I could pray to. I only know that in the longer view of history, things will work out, and that we live in a time more primitive than our technological advancements indicate. I only can wish to be a good link...in the long chain. I can only seek to live as an example, and not hammer at anyone, but be gentle and encouraging. And you know what? It might even have been from reading the new testament when i was young that taught me to be that way So you have my respect I wouldn't seek to put down or change anyone's way to spirituality. (spirituality is something atheists can have and understand.... a-theist just means "not religious", it shouldn't mean " against religion", and it shouldn't preclude us from being aware that the universe is a mystery beyond any of us, and we seem to be connected as one, and helping others helps ourselves, and that stuff..to me that's "God"! ...in my vague, generic, uncertain way. I think people who single out Christianity as having bad things in it's history have to concede that the history of humanity itself is full of bad episodes as well.
Amazing how the horrors of say Maoism are simply forgotten nowadays. Women being tortured to death in Chinese public squares for the "crime" of having a European parent is for some reason played down, forgotten or never considered noteworthy..
|
|
|
Post by chips on Aug 28, 2012 23:07:08 GMT
Do you Believe the Bible is true?
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 29, 2012 15:17:20 GMT
Dearest Chips, When reading the Bible especially Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteromony, etc. we have to remember that bitter poverty, famines and plagues killed many people. It was literally neccesary to decide who would live and who would die as was the case on the sinking Titanic as well.
Thus all these trivial death sentences.
|
|
|
Post by chips on Aug 29, 2012 23:02:47 GMT
Thank you Anna, I know all that having watched many episodes of The Fall of empire and how much disease played a part in history over the last 2,000 years.
I just thought I would inject some humour into the subject.
Think about it. Any Creator that designed a Duck-billed Platypus must have a sense of humour And our News 'Chasers' Take the pi$$ out of everything.
|
|
♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
|
Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 30, 2012 4:38:35 GMT
Thank you Anna, I know all that having watched many episodes of The Fall of empire and how much disease played a part in history over the last 2,000 years. I just thought I would inject some humour into the subject. Think about it. Any Creator that designed a Duck-billed Platypus must have a sense of humour And our News 'Chasers' Take the pi$$ out of everything. Hi Chips! Yes God definitely has a sense of humor! Even babies who can't talk laugh when they observe something funny. Humor is a true gift and a very real part of the universe.
|
|