|
Post by Hunny on Jun 28, 2012 19:32:33 GMT
As Sadie reported, Obamacare has been upheld --> read details...But Romney promises to get rid of it if he gets elected (because Republicans think having 50 million of our own people without health care is good.)
|
|
|
Post by mikemarshall on Jun 28, 2012 19:45:48 GMT
I am in general totally opposed to almost every aspect of government activity.
However, healthcare is one of the few areas where governments can actually do something constructive for a change rather than simply destructive as is their normal practice.
Obama's plans are a damp squib but they do at least represent an improvement on the existing system.
Aliens, illegal or otherwise, are rather a side issue in this respect.
The fundamental question is which is more important - treating the health of another human being or some sort of Simon Pure disdain for spending government money or providing an alternative means of funding healthcare to the conspiracy of criminals that laughably claim to be insurance companies.
Bad, inept, a fudge Obama's measures certainly are but the alternative is even worse.
As for Romney, he is such a buffoon he even makes Obama appear vaguely intelligent.
If only a politician with a brain cell attempted to run for President!
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on Jun 28, 2012 20:45:13 GMT
Almost as bad as that bloody Samaritan who paid for a stranger's care!
|
|
|
Post by trubble on Jun 28, 2012 21:24:45 GMT
Right now....the border states near Mexico.....the hospitals and health care places are going bankrupt. Anyone that walks into a public hospital gets cared for.......so......many people come from Mexico.....and have babies...(which gives that baby U.S. citizenship and all the welfare benefits that go with it).....if they are sick...they come here....and get every treatment available.....and then go back home.....or die here. I feel for you there. I don't really know the answer either. I wonder will America ever change that birthright - do you think so? It seems so UNamerican to change it. That used to be the situation in Ireland, until a few years ago, and when we had a referendum about changing the citizenship qualifications I voted no -- but in hindsight I am glad the Yes vote won. It was changed so that the parent/s had to live in Ireland for a few years before having a baby who could be legally called Irish. With the open borders people had begun to travel all across the world to give birth in an Irish hospital and gain European citizenship/rights through their little babies. And pregnant women were taking huge risks. It was going to become ridiculous. All Irish pre-natal/natal/post-natal care is free - to anyone - up to 6 weeks after the birth, (and I think that's quite right), but we couldn't handle the numbers at all, the whole system was falling apart anyway but the added influx just broke it -- there weren't enough beds, nurses, you name it -- and it hasn't recovered, of course, what with austerity etc! Pity.
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Jun 29, 2012 0:08:04 GMT
Also.....the U.S. gov't has done so much to screw up medicare and welfare......you just know they will mess this up.
|
|
|
Post by mikemarshall on Jun 29, 2012 0:50:08 GMT
Well, that particular problem began (like so many other disastrous aspects of life in the US) with the Presidency of Reagan.
Few men have done so much damage in such a short period of time. Reagan set himself - to please his financial backers - on a course of trying to do away with publicly funded healthcare wherever possible.
Before his time there was far more bipartisanship on health as indeed ought to be the case.
Ever since his time the whole issue has been seen in party terms.
It has been dishonestly presented as a liberal/conservative issue when it is nothing of the kind.
It is as irrational to expect the private sector to provide universal healthcare as it is to expect a private army to be more efficient at winning wars than a national one.
The only rational solution is to adopt the British model where those who wish to pay for private healthcare are free to do so but public healthcare is available to all irrespective of their ability to pay and without the necessity for any kind of health insurance.
It could easily be paid for if drastic reductions in other bloated public finance areas were made.
The opposition to such proposals within the US is largely based upon deliberate lies financed and publicised by the insurance companies and their political cronies.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with genuine political divisions.
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 12:20:08 GMT
As Sadie reported, Obamacare has been upheld --> read details...But Romney promises to get rid of it if he gets elected (because Republicans think having 50 million of our own people without health care is good.) the important thing to note is that the imbecile who is talking about getting rid of obamacare, is the clown who pushed through romney care in massachusetts. the healthcare act is an exact replica of romney care. the mandate for everyone to HAVE to have insurance is a republican idea, from 1990. everyone needs to remember these simple little facts when mitty starts talking. you know the fool is lying when you see his lips move
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 12:24:21 GMT
I am in general totally opposed to almost every aspect of government activity. However, healthcare is one of the few areas where governments can actually do something constructive for a change rather than simply destructive as is their normal practice. Obama's plans are a damp squib but they do at least represent an improvement on the existing system. Aliens, illegal or otherwise, are rather a side issue in this respect. The fundamental question is which is more important - treating the health of another human being or some sort of Simon Pure disdain for spending government money or providing an alternative means of funding healthcare to the conspiracy of criminals that laughably claim to be insurance companies. Bad, inept, a fudge Obama's measures certainly are but the alternative is even worse. As for Romney, he is such a buffoon he even makes Obama appear vaguely intelligent. If only a politician with a brain cell attempted to run for President! this is NOT what obama wanted. he wanted to do things right, and establish universal health care. it was the right wing lunatic republicans who refused to pass health care reform. over and over, republicans kept shouting that it is better for a baby to die than for an insurance company to lose a penny of profit. at least this is a step in the right direction. the united states in the only country in the western world that is still too uncivilized to have universal health care. hopefully, that will change after november when the democrats take full control of congress
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 12:30:46 GMT
Well, that particular problem began (like so many other disastrous aspects of life in the US) with the Presidency of Reagan. Few men have done so much damage in such a short period of time. Reagan set himself - to please his financial backers - on a course of trying to do away with publicly funded healthcare wherever possible. Before his time there was far more bipartisanship on health as indeed ought to be the case. Ever since his time the whole issue has been seen in party terms. It has been dishonestly presented as a liberal/conservative issue when it is nothing of the kind. It is as irrational to expect the private sector to provide universal healthcare as it is to expect a private army to be more efficient at winning wars than a national one. The only rational solution is to adopt the British model where those who wish to pay for private healthcare are free to do so but public healthcare is available to all irrespective of their ability to pay and without the necessity for any kind of health insurance. It could easily be paid for if drastic reductions in other bloated public finance areas were made. The opposition to such proposals within the US is largely based upon deliberate lies financed and publicised by the insurance companies and their political cronies. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with genuine political divisions. sometimes, my man, you display absolute brilliance. this is one of those times. you are absolutely correct about ronnie. of course, that is the fault of those who were so abjectly stupid that they voted for him. one of his first acts as governor of california was to throw tens of thousands of mentally ill people out on the streets with NO services. his attempt to dismantle ALL healthcare as president certainly was no surprise to anyone with half a brain. obama's original plan was the most intelligent one that has ever been presented. it would have required insurance companies to compete with the government, which would obviously slash their profits hugely, or cease to exist. either way it was a win win for america. as i said though, republicans are more concerned with pennies than with a child's life, so they blocked it
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Jun 29, 2012 15:14:37 GMT
this is NOT what obama wanted. he wanted to do things right, and establish universal health care. it was the right wing lunatic republicans who refused to pass health care reform. over and over, republicans kept shouting that it is better for a baby to die than for an insurance company to lose a penny of profit. at least this is a step in the right direction. the united states in the only country in the western world that is still too uncivilized to have universal health care. hopefully, that will change after november when the democrats take full control of congress Oh stop it......no one was shouting "let babies die"....this is exactly the nonsense that keeps anyone from getting anything done. It has not been all about insurance companies or pharmaceuticals. It is about whether the gov't has the ability to force us to buy something and more taxes and other things. I want everyone to have insurance. I believe it will bring costs down also. I am not against paying more taxes for that to happen. I just don't believe these bozos can do anything right. They always have to make it about Democrats or Republicans....and a war between them.....they have all forgotten that this is about US....the people...that end up paying for their idiot moves. Instead of fighting over who won and who lost...sit down and work this out. As far as the fight over the gov't telling us we "have to" purchase something.........it's an asinine thing to be fighting over.....yes....said like that it does bother me.....but I already HAVE TO have car insurance.....and it ticks me off when other people don't and then have wrecks. It will work out.....but we have to tell them to shut up and get along and work it out. They are all like idiot 2 year olds.
|
|
|
Post by Hunny on Jun 29, 2012 15:45:38 GMT
this is NOT what obama wanted. he wanted to do things right, and establish universal health care. it was the right wing lunatic republicans who refused to pass health care reform. over and over, republicans kept shouting that it is better for a baby to die than for an insurance company to lose a penny of profit. at least this is a step in the right direction. the united states in the only country in the western world that is still too uncivilized to have universal health care. hopefully, that will change after november when the democrats take full control of congress Oh stop it......no one was shouting "let babies die"....this is exactly the nonsense that keeps anyone from getting anything done. It has not been all about insurance companies or pharmaceuticals. It is about whether the gov't has the ability to force us to buy something and more taxes and other things. I want everyone to have insurance. I believe it will bring costs down also. I am not against paying more taxes for that to happen. I just don't believe these bozos can do anything right. They always have to make it about Democrats or Republicans....and a war between them.....they have all forgotten that this is about US....the people...that end up paying for their idiot moves. Instead of fighting over who won and who lost...sit down and work this out. As far as the fight over the gov't telling us we "have to" purchase something.........it's an asinine thing to be fighting over.....yes....said like that it does bother me.....but I already HAVE TO have car insurance.....and it ticks me off when other people don't and then have wrecks. It will work out.....but we have to tell them to shut up and get along and work it out. They are all like idiot 2 year olds. Actually the republicans DO want babies to die, because if Romney gets in he's promised to abolish Obamacare, which will bring us back to having 50 million Americans without health care, and that has terrible results including a higher infant mortality rate. And that's what Jim is referring to I believe. I can see your frustration over the two party idiocy that we have instead of doing constructive things, but..well that's why i kind of gave up because they're NEVER going to work together. All the republicans want is to annihilate the competition and anything it has accomplished. The democrats on the other hand are wimps and don't even fight very well. Because of that Romney may get in. And that's bad because the right wing agenda is ..awful. And I think acting to put 50 million people without health care -just so profits won't be affected- is one proof of that. But no, they're not going to work together, and hoping for that isn't the answer. The answer is to not have two parties, because it's a stupid way to pretend we're running a country, to divide into two opposing teams and stage a fight instead of accomplishing anything. The problem is we're not likely to abolish parties so that's why I see it as hopeless. Actually, I cant even imagine why people bother voting anymore! They rig elections, so what's the point??? Seriously I gave up after Clinton's ridiculous "centrism", and two stolen elections, and all the destructive fiscal pillaging. The only way I'd have anything to do with American politics anymore now is if we had a revolution. That I'd help (it isn't like I'm unpatriotic).
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Jun 29, 2012 16:17:12 GMT
I'll be right next to you for the revolution......two party idiot system. Sick to death of all of them going in there and coming out millionaires....and telling us they are working for us. Sick of both sides doing nothing but pointing fingers and whining about the other side.....there is good and bad ideas on both sides.......and they only tell us what they think will get them elected.
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 19:15:56 GMT
this is NOT what obama wanted. he wanted to do things right, and establish universal health care. it was the right wing lunatic republicans who refused to pass health care reform. over and over, republicans kept shouting that it is better for a baby to die than for an insurance company to lose a penny of profit. at least this is a step in the right direction. the united states in the only country in the western world that is still too uncivilized to have universal health care. hopefully, that will change after november when the democrats take full control of congress Oh stop it......no one was shouting "let babies die"....this is exactly the nonsense that keeps anyone from getting anything done. It has not been all about insurance companies or pharmaceuticals. It is about whether the gov't has the ability to force us to buy something and more taxes and other things. I want everyone to have insurance. I believe it will bring costs down also. I am not against paying more taxes for that to happen. I just don't believe these bozos can do anything right. They always have to make it about Democrats or Republicans....and a war between them.....they have all forgotten that this is about US....the people...that end up paying for their idiot moves. Instead of fighting over who won and who lost...sit down and work this out. As far as the fight over the gov't telling us we "have to" purchase something.........it's an asinine thing to be fighting over.....yes....said like that it does bother me.....but I already HAVE TO have car insurance.....and it ticks me off when other people don't and then have wrecks. It will work out.....but we have to tell them to shut up and get along and work it out. They are all like idiot 2 year olds. you are at least partially right. being an idiot has been a republican trait ever since ronnie. and for sure, anyone who screams about obamacare had better be yelling about government forcing you to get car insurance. there is NO difference in ANY way. yes, the republicans DID say that it was better for a baby to die than insurance company to lose profit. there were a dozen speeches in the house concerned solely with healthcare reform having a "deleterious" effect on insurance companies. obviously, every rational person supports universal health care. that forces the insurance companies to compete with the government, and drastically slice profits, or cease to exist entirely. that is a win win for america. with universal health care, there is no impediment to your paying five times as much to a private insurance company if you wish. you just have to pay the taxes for the health care along with it, if you are that dumb
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 19:21:45 GMT
Oh stop it......no one was shouting "let babies die"....this is exactly the nonsense that keeps anyone from getting anything done. It has not been all about insurance companies or pharmaceuticals. It is about whether the gov't has the ability to force us to buy something and more taxes and other things. I want everyone to have insurance. I believe it will bring costs down also. I am not against paying more taxes for that to happen. I just don't believe these bozos can do anything right. They always have to make it about Democrats or Republicans....and a war between them.....they have all forgotten that this is about US....the people...that end up paying for their idiot moves. Instead of fighting over who won and who lost...sit down and work this out. As far as the fight over the gov't telling us we "have to" purchase something.........it's an asinine thing to be fighting over.....yes....said like that it does bother me.....but I already HAVE TO have car insurance.....and it ticks me off when other people don't and then have wrecks. It will work out.....but we have to tell them to shut up and get along and work it out. They are all like idiot 2 year olds. Actually the republicans DO want babies to die, because if Romney gets in he's promised to abolish Obamacare, which will bring us back to having 50 million Americans without health care, and that has terrible results including a higher infant mortality rate. And that's what Jim is referring to I believe. I can see your frustration over the two party idiocy that we have instead of doing constructive things, but..well that's why i kind of gave up because they're NEVER going to work together. All the republicans want is to annihilate the competition and anything it has accomplished. The democrats on the other hand are wimps and don't even fight very well. Because of that Romney may get in. And that's bad because the right wing agenda is ..awful. And I think acting to put 50 million people without health care -just so profits won't be affected- is one proof of that. But no, they're not going to work together, and hoping for that isn't the answer. The answer is to not have two parties, because it's a stupid way to pretend we're running a country, to divide into two opposing teams and stage a fight instead of accomplishing anything. The problem is we're not likely to abolish parties so that's why I see it as hopeless. Actually, I cant even imagine why people bother voting anymore! They rig elections, so what's the point??? Seriously I gave up after Clinton's ridiculous "centrism", and two stolen elections, and all the destructive fiscal pillaging. The only way I'd have anything to do with American politics anymore now is if we had a revolution. That I'd help (it isn't like I'm unpatriotic). thank you, but, i did mean it exactly like i wrote it. obviously, anyone who opposes single payer healthcare because it will hurt insurance companies is saying EXACTLY that they would rather see babies dying than see cigna lose a penny of profit. you can't give up. that is cowardice. the only way that we will ever restore america to being great again is to fight to make it that way. we have to do whatever it takes to get rid of the right wing lunatic fringe in the government
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 29, 2012 19:23:35 GMT
I'll be right next to you for the revolution......two party idiot system. Sick to death of all of them going in there and coming out millionaires....and telling us they are working for us. Sick of both sides doing nothing but pointing fingers and whining about the other side.....there is good and bad ideas on both sides.......and they only tell us what they think will get them elected. that's why you should do as i do. i take what is right from all sides to form the perfect ideology. on some things, i am to the right of goldwater. on some things, i'm to the left of nader. what i am NOT, is EVER, in the center on AN"YTHING
|
|
|
Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jun 29, 2012 19:30:55 GMT
Right now, presidential polls show Romney and Obama both in the mid-40s. The single most unpopular thing Obama has done is the health care law. Now it is going to be the lynchpin issue. It means that the election itself will increasingly be polarized around opinions of the health care law - a fifteen point loser for the Democrats.
In a real sense, the Supreme Court did not let Obama off the hook by striking down the law. Now he will have to defend it during the election. Remember what this law does. It requires everyone to spend upwards of 7 percent of their income on health insurance or pay a fine of several thousand dollars. Neither is an attractive alternative for the young and the poor who are the president's political base. And, with the expansion of Medicaid rejected by the Court, the government will not be there to help them.
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Jun 29, 2012 19:41:39 GMT
that's why you should do as i do. i take what is right from all sides to form the perfect ideology. on some things, i am to the right of goldwater. on some things, i'm to the left of nader. what i am NOT, is EVER, in the center on AN"YTHING For years now I would rather put a monkey in there then the choices we have had...
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 30, 2012 11:18:58 GMT
Right now, presidential polls show Romney and Obama both in the mid-40s. The single most unpopular thing Obama has done is the health care law. Now it is going to be the lynchpin issue. It means that the election itself will increasingly be polarized around opinions of the health care law - a fifteen point loser for the Democrats. In a real sense, the Supreme Court did not let Obama off the hook by striking down the law. Now he will have to defend it during the election. Remember what this law does. It requires everyone to spend upwards of 7 percent of their income on health insurance or pay a fine of several thousand dollars. Neither is an attractive alternative for the young and the poor who are the president's political base. And, with the expansion of Medicaid rejected by the Court, the government will not be there to help them. wrong lad. since the FACT is that obamacare is an EXACT replica of romney care, and the FACT that the individual mandate is a republican idea from the 1990s, the republican's ONLY hope is to not say a word about it. they'll lose every time they open their mouths, since it will be nothing more than even more examples of romney's hypocrisy anyway, i'm thrilled that you think there should be no tax on cigarettes and booze.
|
|
|
Post by sadie1263 on Jun 30, 2012 12:54:03 GMT
Romney's just ticked because it doesn't have his name on it.
|
|
|
Post by iamjumbo on Jun 30, 2012 19:31:37 GMT
Romney's just ticked because it doesn't have his name on it. just more of his selfishness. he already has it with his name on it in massachusetts. he certainly don't deserve to have two identical programs with his name on it
|
|