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Post by trubble on Jun 12, 2012 17:43:53 GMT
LONGWOOD, Fla. -- A task force created by Gov. Rick Scott will discuss Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law this afternoon at a public hearing. This is the first of several planned task force hearings that will discuss the law that caught national attention following the shooting death of unarmed Sanford teen Trayvon Martin. Martin was shot by neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman. The meeting will allow experts and the public to come forward and discuss the law in front of local law enforcement, politicians and other community members. The "Second Chance on Shoot First" campaign is also set to rally outside the hearing and is expected to deliver 340,000 signatures gathered from an online petition asking elected officials to repeal or change the law. Both the task force hearing and demonstration will take place at Northland Church.
Trayvon Martin's parents are due to speak at it today. |
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Post by trubble on Jun 12, 2012 17:54:56 GMT
from The Guardian: Carroll said that the panel – which will hold further public hearings in other Florida cities including West Palm Beach, Miami, Jacksonville and Pensacola – will conduct a thorough review of the stand-your-ground law focusing on "fairness and inequalities" and will make its recommendations to judge Scott before the Florida legislature convenes in March.
"We have no authority to change laws, that's something that can only happen in the legislature," she said. But she added that she was not aware of one member of the 19-strong panel, which includes Florida politicians who were in office when stand-your-ground was adopted, who were happy with the law as it stood.
There is also no certainty that the panel will recommend any change. A study last month by Quinnipiac University claimed that 56% of Floridians supported stand-your-ground while Palm Beach County public defender Carey Haughwout told today's hearing that from her experience of self-defence cases, she also believed the public supported it.
"The majority of jurors support the law as it stands," she said. "If you're in a position you're entitled to be, then you're entitled to defend yourself. I handled as many self-defence cases before [2005] as after, but we have seen an increase in firearm ownership." |
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Post by trubble on Jun 12, 2012 18:13:09 GMT
The Stand Your Ground law is most widely associated with the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old killed in Florida by George Zimmerman (in mugshot), a neighborhood watch captain who claimed he was acting in self-defense.
But as a recent Tampa Bay Times investigation indicates, the Martin incident is far from the only example of the law’s reach in Florida. The paper identified nearly 200 instances since 2005 where the state’s Stand Your Ground law has played a factor in prosecutors’ decisions, jury acquittals or a judge’s call to throw out the charges. (Not all the cases involved killings. Some involved assaults where the person didn't die.)
The law removes a person’s duty to retreat before using deadly force against another in any place he has the legal right to be -- so long as he reasonably believed he or someone else faced imminent death or great bodily harm. Among the Stand Your Ground cases identified by the paper, defendants went free nearly 70 percent of the time.
Although Florida was the first to enact a Stand Your Ground law, 24 other states enforce similar versions. Using the Tampa Bay findings and others, we've highlighted some of the most notable cases where a version of the Stand Your Ground law has led to freedom from criminal prosecution:
* In November 2007, a Houston-area man pulled out a shotgun and killed two men whom he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home. Joe Horn, a 61-year-old retiree, called 911 and urged the operator to "'Catch these guys, will you? Cause, I ain't going to let them go.'" Despite being warned to remain inside his home, Horn stated he would shoot, telling the operator, "'I have a right to protect myself too, sir. The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.'"
Two months earlier, the Texas Legislature passed a Stand Your Ground law removing a citizen's duty to retreat while in public places before using deadly force. In July 2008, a Harris County grand jury declined to indict Horn of any criminal charges.
* In Louisiana early this year, a grand jury cleared 21-year-old Byron Thomas after he fired into an SUV filled with teenagers after an alleged marijuana transaction went sour. One of the bullets struck and killed 15-year-old Jamonta Miles. Although the SUV was allegedly driving away when Thomas opened fire, Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre said to local media that as far as Thomas knew, someone could have jumped out of the vehicle with a gun. Thomas, said the sheriff, had "decided to stand his ground."
Louisiana’s Stand Your Ground law was enacted just a year after Florida introduced its law.
* In March 2012, Bo Morrison was shot and killed by a homeowner in Wisconsin who discovered the unarmed 20-year-old on his porch early one morning. According to friends, Morrison was trying to evade police responding to a noise complaint at a neighboring underage drinking party. The homeowner, thinking Morrison was a burglar, was not charged by the local district attorney.
While Wisconsin doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law that extends to public spaces, Gov. Scott Walker signed an "intruders bill" in December 2011 that presumes somebody who uses deadly force against a trespasser in their home, business or vehicle acted reasonably, whether or not the intruder was armed. Before the law was enacted, homeowners could only use deadly force if their own lives were at risk.
* In April, 22-year-old Cordell Jude shot and killed Daniel Adkins Jr., a pedestrian who walked in front of Jude's car just as Jude was pulling up to the window of a Taco Bell drive-thru in Arizona. Jude claimed Adkins had waved his arms in the air, wielding what Judge thought was a metal pipe -- it was actually a dog leash. Jude shot the 29-year-old Adkins, who was mentally disabled, once in the chest. As of May, an arrest had not been made in the April 3 shooting. Arizona passed a Stand Your Ground law in 2010.
* In January, a judge in Miami tossed out a second-degree murder charge against Greyston Garcia after he chased a suspected burglar for more than a block and stabbed him to death. The judge decided the stabbing was justified because the burglar had swung a bag of stolen car radios at Garcia -- an object that a medical examiner at a hearing testified could cause "serious harm or death." The judge found Garcia was "well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."
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Post by trubble on Jun 12, 2012 18:13:48 GMT
You can get links to all those stories by visiting the original article @ www.southernstudies.org/2012/06/five-stand-your-ground-cases-you-should-know-about.htmlHere's something about the last one from the Huffington Post: MIAMI -- A judge has dismissed a murder charge against a man who chased and fatally stabbed a suspected thief, citing the same self-defense law at the center of the Trayvon Martin case.
The "stand your ground" law gives a lot of leeway to use deadly force instead of retreating during a confrontation.
Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom ruled Tuesday that a bag of stolen car radios Pedro Roteta swung at Greyston Garcia amounted to a lethal threat. Bloom said Garcia "was well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."
Garcia went home instead of calling 911 after the confrontation in January and later hid the knife and sold two of the radios. |
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Post by trubble on Jun 12, 2012 18:22:46 GMT
& Here's an Irish version: a new law just brought in called ''reasonable force". We don't have gun owners as the norm here except for farmers, and people in gun clubs. And crims, natch. Shot burglar will face new 'reasonable force' law
Son claims he used gun to protect his father's house from intrudersfrom The Irish Independent By JIM CUSACK Sunday April 15 2012 GARDAI are considering the case of a man shot with a legally held shotgun during an apparent attempted robbery in north Co Dublin in the light of Justice Minister Alan Shatter's new law on the use of reasonable force to defend the home.
They are waiting to interview the north Dublin man, who was injured during an apparent attempted burglary at the home of a 79-year-old farmer on Thursday evening last.
The injured man, being treated in Beaumont Hospital, has an injury to his arm believed to have been caused when the son of Richard Lowndes, Graham Lowndes, came across men he believed to be carrying out a robbery on his father's farm in Kilsallaghan, between Finglas and Ashbourne.
The injured man, who is aged 34 and from Finglas, is well known to gardai in Dublin. He has a large number of convictions relating to car theft and motoring offences and is disqualified from driving. He is also currently before the courts in relation to 23 charges.
Graham Lowndes said he was "just defending" his father's home when he opened fire with a legally held shotgun at what he believed to be men raiding the farm. Damage was caused to the house and an unsuccessful attempt was made to break into a gun locker containing other shotguns. Money and personal belongings are understood to have been taken.
Gardai were content to allow Graham Lowndes to travel on a pre-arranged holiday with his family to Spain on Friday and are apparently happy to interview him on his scheduled return.
Graham Lowndes told gardai he was in fear of his life when he went to his father's farm at around 3.30pm on Thursday and was confronted by two men standing beside a silver Lexus car outside the farmhouse. As this was happening, a second car, a BMW X5 four-wheel drive, arrived and it was at this stage, it is understood, that the shotgun was discharged and the Finglas man was injured.
The injured man was taken to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda and then transferred to Beaumont Hospital, where he has undergone an operation on his arm and may require more surgery.
Richard Lowndes was uninjured in the incident, which took place in an area where burglaries, including serious aggravated home invasions and "distraction" robberies -- where robbers bluff their way into the homes of elderly people -- have been commonplace in the past decade and more.
The man being treated in hospital is understood to have told a number of news organisations that he was at the Maryland farm in Kilsallaghan because he wished to thank the man who lived there for a favour he had shown him after his car allegedly broke down nearby. He claims to be the innocent victim of a shooting. |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 12, 2012 20:19:21 GMT
Here's a new story........ A Texas prosecutor said the case of a rancher who beat to death a man he caught allegedly molesting his daughter will go to a grand jury to decide whether the killing was justified, or an act of excessive force. The father, whose name has not been released by authorities, claims he caught the man trying to molest his 4-year-old daughter on his ranch Saturday. Although Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon said the girl’s father is unlikely to be arrested, District Attorney Heather McMinn told FoxNews.com the case remains under investigation and that the Texas Rangers have joined the probe. “Once completed, [results of the investigation] will be forwarded to the district attorney’s office and it will be taken to a grand jury,” McMinn told FoxNews.com. “They’re still investigating what happened at this point.” The grand jury will ultimately decide what charges -- if any -- the girl’s father will face, McMinn said. Relatives of the 47-year-old dead man -- who is from Gonzales and does not appear to have a criminal record -- had not been located as of Tuesday, McMinn said. His name will not be released until those relatives are found, she said. “My understanding is that they are looking for family members in Mexico,” McMinn said. Harmon, who could not be reached for comment Tuesday, said earlier that no evidence has led investigators to doubt the father’s account, he said. “There doesn’t appear to be any reason other than what he told us,” Harmon said. The victim was an “acquaintance” of the father who visited the ranch to help care for some horses, according to Harmon, adding he did not know how long the men may have known each other prior to the alleged incident. The girl’s father notified police late Saturday afternoon that he attacked a man he caught attempting to sexually assault his daughter near a barn where horses were kept, Harmon said. “In the course of trying to get her away from him, and protect her, he struck the subject several times in the head and the subject died,” Harmon said. The girl was taken to a hospital to be examined and was later released, Harmon said. The victim's body was taken to the Travis County medical examiner's office for an autopsy. Authorities are still awaiting those results, McMinn said. James Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, an Austin-based nonprofit group, questioned the father’s decision to “summarily execute” the alleged molester without due process. “Assuming it’s true that this guy was molesting the daughter, and we don’t know what exactly happened at this point, he would then have the right to defend [her], and hit him enough to have him stop,” Harrington told FoxNews.com. “But you cannot summarily execute him, even though I can understand the anger he would have.” Without specific knowledge of the case, Harrington said he was “surprised” that the girl’s father had not been already charged. Harrington continued: “The question is: When does it move beyond self-defense?” Meanwhile, several residents of the small town of roughly 2,000 about 130 miles west of Houston said they supported the father’s actions. “He got what he deserved, big time,” Shiner native Sonny Jaehne told the Victoria Advocate newspaper. Along with Jaehne, Mark Harabis was among a handful of people at a local convenience store on Sunday who discussed the killing. “I agree with him totally,” Harabis told the newspaper. “I would probably do worse. The family will have to deal with that the rest of their lives, no matter what happens to the father. Even if they let him go, he and his child will have to deal with that the rest of their lives.” The owner of Howard’s convenience store said the killing was a hot topic throughout the weekend. “Everybody wants to know who it is,” owner Howard Gloor told the newspaper. “Everybody’s very curious about it. A lot of people have said that he got what he had coming to him. That’s been the consensus. They’ve been supportive of doing what needed to be done to take care of the problem.” The Associated Press contributed to this report. Read more: www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/12/texas-district-attorney-to-present-beating-death-case-to-grand-jury-after-probe/#ixzz1xc10KvBv |
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Post by Hunny on Jun 12, 2012 22:00:59 GMT
The Stand Your Ground law is most widely associated with the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old killed in Florida by George Zimmerman (in mugshot), a neighborhood watch captain who claimed he was acting in self-defense.
But as a recent Tampa Bay Times investigation indicates, the Martin incident is far from the only example of the law’s reach in Florida. The paper identified nearly 200 instances since 2005 where the state’s Stand Your Ground law has played a factor in prosecutors’ decisions, jury acquittals or a judge’s call to throw out the charges. (Not all the cases involved killings. Some involved assaults where the person didn't die.)
The law removes a person’s duty to retreat before using deadly force against another in any place he has the legal right to be -- so long as he reasonably believed he or someone else faced imminent death or great bodily harm. Among the Stand Your Ground cases identified by the paper, defendants went free nearly 70 percent of the time.
Although Florida was the first to enact a Stand Your Ground law, 24 other states enforce similar versions. Using the Tampa Bay findings and others, we've highlighted some of the most notable cases where a version of the Stand Your Ground law has led to freedom from criminal prosecution:
* In November 2007, a Houston-area man pulled out a shotgun and killed two men whom he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home. Joe Horn, a 61-year-old retiree, called 911 and urged the operator to "'Catch these guys, will you? Cause, I ain't going to let them go.'" Despite being warned to remain inside his home, Horn stated he would shoot, telling the operator, "'I have a right to protect myself too, sir. The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.'"
Two months earlier, the Texas Legislature passed a Stand Your Ground law removing a citizen's duty to retreat while in public places before using deadly force. In July 2008, a Harris County grand jury declined to indict Horn of any criminal charges.
* In Louisiana early this year, a grand jury cleared 21-year-old Byron Thomas after he fired into an SUV filled with teenagers after an alleged marijuana transaction went sour. One of the bullets struck and killed 15-year-old Jamonta Miles. Although the SUV was allegedly driving away when Thomas opened fire, Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre said to local media that as far as Thomas knew, someone could have jumped out of the vehicle with a gun. Thomas, said the sheriff, had "decided to stand his ground."
Louisiana’s Stand Your Ground law was enacted just a year after Florida introduced its law.
* In March 2012, Bo Morrison was shot and killed by a homeowner in Wisconsin who discovered the unarmed 20-year-old on his porch early one morning. According to friends, Morrison was trying to evade police responding to a noise complaint at a neighboring underage drinking party. The homeowner, thinking Morrison was a burglar, was not charged by the local district attorney.
While Wisconsin doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law that extends to public spaces, Gov. Scott Walker signed an "intruders bill" in December 2011 that presumes somebody who uses deadly force against a trespasser in their home, business or vehicle acted reasonably, whether or not the intruder was armed. Before the law was enacted, homeowners could only use deadly force if their own lives were at risk.
* In April, 22-year-old Cordell Jude shot and killed Daniel Adkins Jr., a pedestrian who walked in front of Jude's car just as Jude was pulling up to the window of a Taco Bell drive-thru in Arizona. Jude claimed Adkins had waved his arms in the air, wielding what Judge thought was a metal pipe -- it was actually a dog leash. Jude shot the 29-year-old Adkins, who was mentally disabled, once in the chest. As of May, an arrest had not been made in the April 3 shooting. Arizona passed a Stand Your Ground law in 2010.
* In January, a judge in Miami tossed out a second-degree murder charge against Greyston Garcia after he chased a suspected burglar for more than a block and stabbed him to death. The judge decided the stabbing was justified because the burglar had swung a bag of stolen car radios at Garcia -- an object that a medical examiner at a hearing testified could cause "serious harm or death." The judge found Garcia was "well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."
I find this disturbing and hard to accept. But the way The United States has gone, maybe I shouldn't be that surprised.  To set all the gun-toting Americans to thinking they can just shoot or stab someone, chase them to do it even...unbelievable! They tell us how people shouldn't "take the law into their own hands", but this is exactly what my government is prescribing that people should do. They're okaying it. Yikes. |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 12:34:00 GMT
The Stand Your Ground law is most widely associated with the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old killed in Florida by George Zimmerman (in mugshot), a neighborhood watch captain who claimed he was acting in self-defense.
But as a recent Tampa Bay Times investigation indicates, the Martin incident is far from the only example of the law’s reach in Florida. The paper identified nearly 200 instances since 2005 where the state’s Stand Your Ground law has played a factor in prosecutors’ decisions, jury acquittals or a judge’s call to throw out the charges. (Not all the cases involved killings. Some involved assaults where the person didn't die.)
The law removes a person’s duty to retreat before using deadly force against another in any place he has the legal right to be -- so long as he reasonably believed he or someone else faced imminent death or great bodily harm. Among the Stand Your Ground cases identified by the paper, defendants went free nearly 70 percent of the time.
Although Florida was the first to enact a Stand Your Ground law, 24 other states enforce similar versions. Using the Tampa Bay findings and others, we've highlighted some of the most notable cases where a version of the Stand Your Ground law has led to freedom from criminal prosecution:
* In November 2007, a Houston-area man pulled out a shotgun and killed two men whom he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home. Joe Horn, a 61-year-old retiree, called 911 and urged the operator to "'Catch these guys, will you? Cause, I ain't going to let them go.'" Despite being warned to remain inside his home, Horn stated he would shoot, telling the operator, "'I have a right to protect myself too, sir. The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.'"
Two months earlier, the Texas Legislature passed a Stand Your Ground law removing a citizen's duty to retreat while in public places before using deadly force. In July 2008, a Harris County grand jury declined to indict Horn of any criminal charges.
* In Louisiana early this year, a grand jury cleared 21-year-old Byron Thomas after he fired into an SUV filled with teenagers after an alleged marijuana transaction went sour. One of the bullets struck and killed 15-year-old Jamonta Miles. Although the SUV was allegedly driving away when Thomas opened fire, Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre said to local media that as far as Thomas knew, someone could have jumped out of the vehicle with a gun. Thomas, said the sheriff, had "decided to stand his ground."
Louisiana’s Stand Your Ground law was enacted just a year after Florida introduced its law.
* In March 2012, Bo Morrison was shot and killed by a homeowner in Wisconsin who discovered the unarmed 20-year-old on his porch early one morning. According to friends, Morrison was trying to evade police responding to a noise complaint at a neighboring underage drinking party. The homeowner, thinking Morrison was a burglar, was not charged by the local district attorney.
While Wisconsin doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law that extends to public spaces, Gov. Scott Walker signed an "intruders bill" in December 2011 that presumes somebody who uses deadly force against a trespasser in their home, business or vehicle acted reasonably, whether or not the intruder was armed. Before the law was enacted, homeowners could only use deadly force if their own lives were at risk.
* In April, 22-year-old Cordell Jude shot and killed Daniel Adkins Jr., a pedestrian who walked in front of Jude's car just as Jude was pulling up to the window of a Taco Bell drive-thru in Arizona. Jude claimed Adkins had waved his arms in the air, wielding what Judge thought was a metal pipe -- it was actually a dog leash. Jude shot the 29-year-old Adkins, who was mentally disabled, once in the chest. As of May, an arrest had not been made in the April 3 shooting. Arizona passed a Stand Your Ground law in 2010.
* In January, a judge in Miami tossed out a second-degree murder charge against Greyston Garcia after he chased a suspected burglar for more than a block and stabbed him to death. The judge decided the stabbing was justified because the burglar had swung a bag of stolen car radios at Garcia -- an object that a medical examiner at a hearing testified could cause "serious harm or death." The judge found Garcia was "well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."
OBVIOUSLY, to any rational person, every single one of these cases, except for cordell jude was TOTALLY justified |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 12:36:11 GMT
& Here's an Irish version: a new law just brought in called ''reasonable force". We don't have gun owners as the norm here except for farmers, and people in gun clubs. And crims, natch. Shot burglar will face new 'reasonable force' law
Son claims he used gun to protect his father's house from intrudersfrom The Irish Independent By JIM CUSACK Sunday April 15 2012 GARDAI are considering the case of a man shot with a legally held shotgun during an apparent attempted robbery in north Co Dublin in the light of Justice Minister Alan Shatter's new law on the use of reasonable force to defend the home.
They are waiting to interview the north Dublin man, who was injured during an apparent attempted burglary at the home of a 79-year-old farmer on Thursday evening last.
The injured man, being treated in Beaumont Hospital, has an injury to his arm believed to have been caused when the son of Richard Lowndes, Graham Lowndes, came across men he believed to be carrying out a robbery on his father's farm in Kilsallaghan, between Finglas and Ashbourne.
The injured man, who is aged 34 and from Finglas, is well known to gardai in Dublin. He has a large number of convictions relating to car theft and motoring offences and is disqualified from driving. He is also currently before the courts in relation to 23 charges.
Graham Lowndes said he was "just defending" his father's home when he opened fire with a legally held shotgun at what he believed to be men raiding the farm. Damage was caused to the house and an unsuccessful attempt was made to break into a gun locker containing other shotguns. Money and personal belongings are understood to have been taken.
Gardai were content to allow Graham Lowndes to travel on a pre-arranged holiday with his family to Spain on Friday and are apparently happy to interview him on his scheduled return.
Graham Lowndes told gardai he was in fear of his life when he went to his father's farm at around 3.30pm on Thursday and was confronted by two men standing beside a silver Lexus car outside the farmhouse. As this was happening, a second car, a BMW X5 four-wheel drive, arrived and it was at this stage, it is understood, that the shotgun was discharged and the Finglas man was injured.
The injured man was taken to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda and then transferred to Beaumont Hospital, where he has undergone an operation on his arm and may require more surgery.
Richard Lowndes was uninjured in the incident, which took place in an area where burglaries, including serious aggravated home invasions and "distraction" robberies -- where robbers bluff their way into the homes of elderly people -- have been commonplace in the past decade and more.
The man being treated in hospital is understood to have told a number of news organisations that he was at the Maryland farm in Kilsallaghan because he wished to thank the man who lived there for a favour he had shown him after his car allegedly broke down nearby. He claims to be the innocent victim of a shooting. even more obviously, the ONLY sad thing here is that the lad didn't kill the trash instead of just wounding it |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 12:39:11 GMT
Here's a new story........ A Texas prosecutor said the case of a rancher who beat to death a man he caught allegedly molesting his daughter will go to a grand jury to decide whether the killing was justified, or an act of excessive force. The father, whose name has not been released by authorities, claims he caught the man trying to molest his 4-year-old daughter on his ranch Saturday. Although Lavaca County Sheriff Micah Harmon said the girl’s father is unlikely to be arrested, District Attorney Heather McMinn told FoxNews.com the case remains under investigation and that the Texas Rangers have joined the probe. “Once completed, [results of the investigation] will be forwarded to the district attorney’s office and it will be taken to a grand jury,” McMinn told FoxNews.com. “They’re still investigating what happened at this point.” The grand jury will ultimately decide what charges -- if any -- the girl’s father will face, McMinn said. Relatives of the 47-year-old dead man -- who is from Gonzales and does not appear to have a criminal record -- had not been located as of Tuesday, McMinn said. His name will not be released until those relatives are found, she said. “My understanding is that they are looking for family members in Mexico,” McMinn said. Harmon, who could not be reached for comment Tuesday, said earlier that no evidence has led investigators to doubt the father’s account, he said. “There doesn’t appear to be any reason other than what he told us,” Harmon said. The victim was an “acquaintance” of the father who visited the ranch to help care for some horses, according to Harmon, adding he did not know how long the men may have known each other prior to the alleged incident. The girl’s father notified police late Saturday afternoon that he attacked a man he caught attempting to sexually assault his daughter near a barn where horses were kept, Harmon said. “In the course of trying to get her away from him, and protect her, he struck the subject several times in the head and the subject died,” Harmon said. The girl was taken to a hospital to be examined and was later released, Harmon said. The victim's body was taken to the Travis County medical examiner's office for an autopsy. Authorities are still awaiting those results, McMinn said. James Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, an Austin-based nonprofit group, questioned the father’s decision to “summarily execute” the alleged molester without due process. “Assuming it’s true that this guy was molesting the daughter, and we don’t know what exactly happened at this point, he would then have the right to defend [her], and hit him enough to have him stop,” Harrington told FoxNews.com. “But you cannot summarily execute him, even though I can understand the anger he would have.” Without specific knowledge of the case, Harrington said he was “surprised” that the girl’s father had not been already charged. Harrington continued: “The question is: When does it move beyond self-defense?” Meanwhile, several residents of the small town of roughly 2,000 about 130 miles west of Houston said they supported the father’s actions. “He got what he deserved, big time,” Shiner native Sonny Jaehne told the Victoria Advocate newspaper. Along with Jaehne, Mark Harabis was among a handful of people at a local convenience store on Sunday who discussed the killing. “I agree with him totally,” Harabis told the newspaper. “I would probably do worse. The family will have to deal with that the rest of their lives, no matter what happens to the father. Even if they let him go, he and his child will have to deal with that the rest of their lives.” The owner of Howard’s convenience store said the killing was a hot topic throughout the weekend. “Everybody wants to know who it is,” owner Howard Gloor told the newspaper. “Everybody’s very curious about it. A lot of people have said that he got what he had coming to him. That’s been the consensus. They’ve been supportive of doing what needed to be done to take care of the problem.” The Associated Press contributed to this report. Read more: www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/12/texas-district-attorney-to-present-beating-death-case-to-grand-jury-after-probe/#ixzz1xc10KvBvharrington is an imbecile. you have the right to kill in defense of others. self defense has NO relevance to ANYTHING |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 12:44:08 GMT
The Stand Your Ground law is most widely associated with the Feb. 26 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, an unarmed 17-year-old killed in Florida by George Zimmerman (in mugshot), a neighborhood watch captain who claimed he was acting in self-defense.
But as a recent Tampa Bay Times investigation indicates, the Martin incident is far from the only example of the law’s reach in Florida. The paper identified nearly 200 instances since 2005 where the state’s Stand Your Ground law has played a factor in prosecutors’ decisions, jury acquittals or a judge’s call to throw out the charges. (Not all the cases involved killings. Some involved assaults where the person didn't die.)
The law removes a person’s duty to retreat before using deadly force against another in any place he has the legal right to be -- so long as he reasonably believed he or someone else faced imminent death or great bodily harm. Among the Stand Your Ground cases identified by the paper, defendants went free nearly 70 percent of the time.
Although Florida was the first to enact a Stand Your Ground law, 24 other states enforce similar versions. Using the Tampa Bay findings and others, we've highlighted some of the most notable cases where a version of the Stand Your Ground law has led to freedom from criminal prosecution:
* In November 2007, a Houston-area man pulled out a shotgun and killed two men whom he suspected of burglarizing his neighbor's home. Joe Horn, a 61-year-old retiree, called 911 and urged the operator to "'Catch these guys, will you? Cause, I ain't going to let them go.'" Despite being warned to remain inside his home, Horn stated he would shoot, telling the operator, "'I have a right to protect myself too, sir. The laws have been changed in this country since September the first, and you know it.'"
Two months earlier, the Texas Legislature passed a Stand Your Ground law removing a citizen's duty to retreat while in public places before using deadly force. In July 2008, a Harris County grand jury declined to indict Horn of any criminal charges.
* In Louisiana early this year, a grand jury cleared 21-year-old Byron Thomas after he fired into an SUV filled with teenagers after an alleged marijuana transaction went sour. One of the bullets struck and killed 15-year-old Jamonta Miles. Although the SUV was allegedly driving away when Thomas opened fire, Lafourche Parish Sheriff Craig Webre said to local media that as far as Thomas knew, someone could have jumped out of the vehicle with a gun. Thomas, said the sheriff, had "decided to stand his ground."
Louisiana’s Stand Your Ground law was enacted just a year after Florida introduced its law.
* In March 2012, Bo Morrison was shot and killed by a homeowner in Wisconsin who discovered the unarmed 20-year-old on his porch early one morning. According to friends, Morrison was trying to evade police responding to a noise complaint at a neighboring underage drinking party. The homeowner, thinking Morrison was a burglar, was not charged by the local district attorney.
While Wisconsin doesn't have a Stand Your Ground law that extends to public spaces, Gov. Scott Walker signed an "intruders bill" in December 2011 that presumes somebody who uses deadly force against a trespasser in their home, business or vehicle acted reasonably, whether or not the intruder was armed. Before the law was enacted, homeowners could only use deadly force if their own lives were at risk.
* In April, 22-year-old Cordell Jude shot and killed Daniel Adkins Jr., a pedestrian who walked in front of Jude's car just as Jude was pulling up to the window of a Taco Bell drive-thru in Arizona. Jude claimed Adkins had waved his arms in the air, wielding what Judge thought was a metal pipe -- it was actually a dog leash. Jude shot the 29-year-old Adkins, who was mentally disabled, once in the chest. As of May, an arrest had not been made in the April 3 shooting. Arizona passed a Stand Your Ground law in 2010.
* In January, a judge in Miami tossed out a second-degree murder charge against Greyston Garcia after he chased a suspected burglar for more than a block and stabbed him to death. The judge decided the stabbing was justified because the burglar had swung a bag of stolen car radios at Garcia -- an object that a medical examiner at a hearing testified could cause "serious harm or death." The judge found Garcia was "well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property."
I find this disturbing and hard to accept. But the way The United States has gone, maybe I shouldn't be that surprised. To set all the gun-toting Americans to thinking they can just shoot or stab someone, chase them to do it even...unbelievable! They tell us how people shouldn't "take the law into their own hands", but this is exactly what my government is prescribing that people should do. They're okaying it. Yikes. wrong all the way around hon. in the first place, where would you get the insane idea that the police are there to protect you? it has been settled law in the united states since 1981 in warren vs district of columbia that the police have NO duty to protect you. even if the police were obligated to protect you, average response time to an emergency is five minutes. you could be dead, or the garbage long gone, long before the police get there. the simple REALITY is that, when a worthless piece of shyt makes the decision to break into your house, or try to rob you, it is making the conscious, willful choice to die. you have EVERY right, legally and morally, to send it to hell where it belongs. actually, you have the moral obligation to kill it, and ensure that it isn't robbing your neighbor tomorrow |
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Post by Synonym on Jun 13, 2012 14:57:54 GMT
the simple REALITY is that, when a worthless piece of shyt makes the decision to break into your house, or try to rob you, it is making the conscious, willful choice to die. you have EVERY right, legally and morally, to send it to hell where it belongs. actually, you have the moral obligation to kill it, and ensure that it isn't robbing your neighbor tomorrow It is one thing to say that people have the right to defend their own lives in a reasonably proportionate response to a threat to their life or limb, but it sounds instead as if you are willing to allow people to act as judge jury and executioner. If you really believe that an appropriate punishment for stealing or attempting to steal someone's property is the death penalty then advocate making theft a capitol crime. So the person still has to be properly proven guilty in a court of law, but then they get the, as you believe, correct punishment. It shouldn't be for private citizens to decide for themselves whether a person is legally guilty of a crime and so is to get the prescribed punishment carried out, again, by themselves. |
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Post by trubble on Jun 13, 2012 16:01:56 GMT
I don't believe that we humans have any moral right to send anyone to hell. If hell exists then God is the only one who has the moral right to choose their destination. And God, I think, instructed us to leave the judging to him.
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Post by trubble on Jun 13, 2012 16:16:54 GMT
From the Task Force discussion so far: Motions to amend ~ Trayvon Martin's father said: "We come here to ask you to consider the Trayvon Martin amendment to the stand-your-ground law, that is you cannot be the pursuer, you cannot initiate the confrontation, and then say you were standing your ground." Motions to repeal ~ Allie Braswell, president of the Central Florida Urban League and a former US marine, said: "This law gives more leeway to someone with a handgun on our streets than someone in the military subject to the laws of engagement....There is no consistent application of this law. We need to look at it, review it at the very least and repeal it if necessary." Motions to maintain ~ Frank Darden, a former deputy commissioner of the Florida department of education, who has a concealed weapon's permit, said he was attacked by a youth with a knife, and might have died had he not had the right to produce and use a firearm: "When he realised he'd brought a knife to a gun fight he dropped it and ran," he said. "I didn't fire but I have no doubt that the law saved me." |
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Post by trubble on Jun 13, 2012 16:35:02 GMT
Meanwhile, closing arguments have been made and the jury are considering this case: Raul Rodrieguez & Stand Your Ground.
HOUSTON—Raul Rodriguez, a retired Baytown firefighter who shot and killed a New Caney ISD teacher in a dispute over loud music two years ago, claims he opened fire in self-defense.
And his attorneys believe a 20-minute, grainy video taken by Rodriguez on the night of the shooting proves it.
Rodriguez is facing murder charges in the death of P.E. teacher Kelly Danaher.
It happened in May of 2010, outside Danaher’s home. He was hosting a party that Rodriguez, who lives nearby, said was too loud.
So the retired firefighter, who has his CHL, grabbed his gun, flashlight and his video camera and went outside of Danaher’s home to document the noise.
For the first 10 minutes he stood outside the home, no one noticed him. Then, Rodriguez, Danaher and a group of partygoers got into a confrontation.
In the video, Rodriguez can be heard talking to the constable’s office, telling them that he was going to have to defend himself, and that the group of people were going to harm him.
Meanwhile, the partygoers, whose faces were not visible, were talking to each other and yelling at Rodriguez.
Danaher and his friends appeared to be unarmed, but one of the men on the video can be heard saying he could go inside and come back out “equal to” Rodriguez. Rodriguez said he thought that meant the man would get a gun.
As the partygoers talked amongst themselves and Rodriguez spoke with the dispatcher, a male voice, laughing, can be heard approaching the camera.
Then, gunshots are heard.
Three men, including Danaher, were hit. The other two – Houston firefighter Ricky Johnson and Marshall Stetson, survived.
Many of Danaher’s family members were in the courtroom Wednesday, but none wanted to speak with KHOU 11 News on camera.
Rodriguez has pleaded not guilty, and officials said they expect the trial to last a few days.
Now, it’s up to the jurors to decide if the video proves that Rodriguez acted in self-defense – or if he set out to kill.
After watching the video that was shown to jurors, a man who spent a decade teaching gun owners how to obtain concealed handgun permits defended the actions of Rodriguez.
“He told them to get back,” said Jim Pruett, the owner of Jim Pruett Guns and Ammo. “One of the first things you’re taught to say is I’m armed and my life is in danger. I promise you I will use my firearm to defend myself. He did all of those things.”
But Channel 11’s legal analyst questioned the suspect’s rationale for the shooting, which took place in front of the victim’s house, two doors down from where Rodriguez lives.
“Nobody’s hold your own ground, or stand your own ground laws are ever on the side of the person who started the fight,” said attorney Gerald Treece. Video @ www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/raul-rodriguez-stand-your-ground-trial_n_1592974.html |
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Post by Big Lin on Jun 13, 2012 18:36:18 GMT
I don't believe that we humans have any moral right to send anyone to hell. If hell exists then God is the only one who has the moral right to choose their destination. And God, I think, instructed us to leave the judging to him. Oh dear, you've got me worried now! Only the other day I told a persistently annoying mobile phone salesman on the phone to go to hell!  |
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Post by sadie1263 on Jun 13, 2012 19:29:47 GMT
I don't believe that we humans have any moral right to send anyone to hell. If hell exists then God is the only one who has the moral right to choose their destination. And God, I think, instructed us to leave the judging to him. I believe it is up to the person, their actions and their beliefs, as to where they are going. Now....it just isn't always up to them, WHEN they are going. |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 19:39:06 GMT
the simple REALITY is that, when a worthless piece of shyt makes the decision to break into your house, or try to rob you, it is making the conscious, willful choice to die. you have EVERY right, legally and morally, to send it to hell where it belongs. actually, you have the moral obligation to kill it, and ensure that it isn't robbing your neighbor tomorrow It is one thing to say that people have the right to defend their own lives in a reasonably proportionate response to a threat to their life or limb, but it sounds instead as if you are willing to allow people to act as judge jury and executioner. If you really believe that an appropriate punishment for stealing or attempting to steal someone's property is the death penalty then advocate making theft a capitol crime. So the person still has to be properly proven guilty in a court of law, but then they get the, as you believe, correct punishment. It shouldn't be for private citizens to decide for themselves whether a person is legally guilty of a crime and so is to get the prescribed punishment carried out, again, by themselves. when a worthless piece of shyt chooses to break into my house, HE is deciding to die. he, and he alone makes that choice. when a punk is halfway through a window or door, there is no question of guilt anyway. besides, only looney tunes think that a thief's life is worth more than a pencil off my desk |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 19:45:33 GMT
I don't believe that we humans have any moral right to send anyone to hell. If hell exists then God is the only one who has the moral right to choose their destination. And God, I think, instructed us to leave the judging to him. you are right insofar as only god sends anyone anywhere. of course, where he sends them is totally up to them. they make the choice. obviously, a piece of shyt who burglarizes houses or robs has decided that it wants to go to hell, so, when it is despatched from life because it chose to be, it will be going to hell. again, it is TOTALLY that individual's choice. NO ONE else's |
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Post by trubble on Jun 13, 2012 20:06:21 GMT
Wasn't it on this board somewhere that we once had a discussion about the meaning of ''an eye for an eye''? And I think it was skylark who got to the true meaning of it.
Punishment equal to the crime.
Seems like a guy stealing a radio should have, say, his freedom robbed in return -- but not his life.
I'm going to be interested in what the jury says about Raul Rodriguez. All I've seen is the video so I'm not pretending to be an expert! and I can see how he was scared and wound up, but it strikes me as obvious that he should have gone home and let the police deal with it.
I think it was a real example of feeling confident to risk a confrontation because he knew he had a gun. If he hadn't had one, he probably would have gone home.
There's a real problem when self-defence laws combine with concealed weapons, I think.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 20:21:37 GMT
From the Task Force discussion so far: Motions to amend ~ Trayvon Martin's father said: "We come here to ask you to consider the Trayvon Martin amendment to the stand-your-ground law, that is you cannot be the pursuer, you cannot initiate the confrontation, and then say you were standing your ground." Motions to repeal ~ Allie Braswell, president of the Central Florida Urban League and a former US marine, said: "This law gives more leeway to someone with a handgun on our streets than someone in the military subject to the laws of engagement....There is no consistent application of this law. We need to look at it, review it at the very least and repeal it if necessary." Motions to maintain ~ Frank Darden, a former deputy commissioner of the Florida department of education, who has a concealed weapon's permit, said he was attacked by a youth with a knife, and might have died had he not had the right to produce and use a firearm: "When he realised he'd brought a knife to a gun fight he dropped it and ran," he said. "I didn't fire but I have no doubt that the law saved me." obviously, if you initiate the confrontation, you cannot claim self defense. obviously, you can never, under any circumstance, initiate anything when a criminal breaks into your house, or tries to rob you on the street. only the basest imbecile would even consider trying to claim that you should just acquiesce. |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 13, 2012 20:22:44 GMT
I don't believe that we humans have any moral right to send anyone to hell. If hell exists then God is the only one who has the moral right to choose their destination. And God, I think, instructed us to leave the judging to him. I believe it is up to the person, their actions and their beliefs, as to where they are going. Now....it just isn't always up to them, WHEN they are going. in the case of a criminal, it ALWAYS is |
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Post by Synonym on Jun 13, 2012 20:31:18 GMT
when a worthless piece of shyt chooses to break into my house, HE is deciding to die. he, and he alone makes that choice. when a punk is halfway through a window or door, there is no question of guilt anyway. besides, only looney tunes think that a thief's life is worth more than a pencil off my desk It is not for a private citizen to decide guilt, it is for the courts. It is not for a private citizen to mete out the punishment, it is for the legal system to do so. I can say that you put your hand in my back pocket and so I knew that you were guilty of attempted theft of my wallet and accordingly I decided to punish you with the death penalty on the spot, but these aren't my decisions to make. It is for the courts to assess the evidence and decide whether there is sufficient evidence that you were trying to steal from me (and I'd hope that my simple say alone so would not be sufficient for that) and then order your punishment if you are found guilty by them. As I say, if you believe a crime deserves capitol punishment at least let it be done sensibly rather than just 'oh you say he or she was going to commit a crime and so you killed them? Fair enough, say no more'. |
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Post by Synonym on Jun 13, 2012 20:39:18 GMT
you are right insofar as only god sends anyone anywhere. of course, where he sends them is totally up to them. they make the choice. obviously, a piece of shyt who burglarizes houses or robs has decided that it wants to go to hell, so, when it is despatched from life because it chose to be, it will be going to hell. again, it is TOTALLY that individual's choice. NO ONE else's Only very young children or the severely mentally disabled can be said to not be in control of their choices and actions. A person can choose to commit a crime and similarly we can choose how to respond to it, including whether to punish the crime by jail or death or whatever. Your belief that the death penalty is an appropriate and proportionate response to the theft of a pencil is your belief. Nothing is compelling you to kill a pencil thief, that is a choice that you make, not them. |
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Post by iamjumbo on Jun 14, 2012 9:05:05 GMT
Wasn't it on this board somewhere that we once had a discussion about the meaning of ''an eye for an eye''? And I think it was skylark who got to the true meaning of it. Punishment equal to the crime. Seems like a guy stealing a radio should have, say, his freedom robbed in return -- but not his life. I'm going to be interested in what the jury says about Raul Rodriguez. All I've seen is the video so I'm not pretending to be an expert! and I can see how he was scared and wound up, but it strikes me as obvious that he should have gone home and let the police deal with it. I think it was a real example of feeling confident to risk a confrontation because he knew he had a gun. If he hadn't had one, he probably would have gone home. There's a real problem when self-defence laws combine with concealed weapons, I think. rodriguez should be convicted. he initiated the confrontation, and, as i said, an aggressor loses any claim of self defense. he was NOT standing his ground. he had no business being on the ground that he was standing on. you can make a case, although not a good one, for the state not executing a thief. you cannot make a case of any kind for a person killing it in their house, or when it is trying to rob them. there is NO similarity whatsoever |
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To set all the gun-toting Americans to thinking they can just shoot or stab someone, chase them to do it even...unbelievable!
Nov 14, 2024 22:18:24 GMT
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Nov 14, 2024 22:18:24 GMT
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
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biglinmarshall.proboards.com/thread/7917/bits-pieces-magazine-issue-2024
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yay! 
thanks
Nov 2, 2024 17:09:05 GMT
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