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Post by gabriel on Nov 6, 2010 13:14:05 GMT
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 8, 2010 7:19:05 GMT
Here's the latest from the ripper industry. Only a tabloid and a manipulative ripperologist can identify the ripper with psychological and geographic profiling!
We've discussed the morgue assistant Robert Mann earlier on this long thread. i don't consider him a serious suspect, but i guess he didn't follow orders, when ripper victim Polly Nichols was to be examined.
There's a video on the link with the "Robert Mann=jtr theory" that least dispells the claim the jtr wandered around Whitechapel wearing a tophat!www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/6261360/Jack-the-Rippers-identity-finally-uncovered.html QUOTE: Jack the Ripper's identity finally uncovered? An historian has claimed to have discovered the real identity of Jack the Ripper, and believes the notorious Whitechapel murderer was also responsible for killing two more women. Published: 11:44AM BST 05 Oct 2009 Mei Trow used modern police forensic techniques, including psychological and geographical profiling, to identify Robert Mann, a morgue attendant, as the killer. His theory, the result of two years intensive research, is explored in a Discovery Channel documentary, Jack the Ripper: Killer Revealed. Trow's research is rooted in information from a 1988 FBI examination of the Ripper case, which had worked up a comprehensive criminal personality profile. The portrait drawn up of Jack was as a white male from the lower social classes, most likely the product of a broken home. It was also thought he would have had a menial job but with some anatomical knowledge, something like a butcher, mortuary or medical examiner's assistant or hospital attendant. Because of prolonged periods without human interaction, Jack would also have been socially inept It is known that Mann was from an extremely deprived background. His father was absent for much of his upbringing and he had spent some time as a child in a workhouse. Trow said: "I wanted to go beyond the myth of a caped man with a top hat and knife, and get to the reality, and the reality is simply that Jack was an ordinary man." Trow makes another startling conjecture, that the Ripper killed another two women. He believes Martha Tabram, found with 39 stab wounds to her body in Gunthorpe Street, was the first of Jack's victims, and Alice Mackenzie, brutally murdered eight months after the confirmed five killings, was his last. The two women, along with Polly Nichols and Annie Chapman, would have been delivered to the Whitechapel mortuary in which Robert Mann worked. After the killing of Polly Nichols, Jack's first recognised victim, Mann unlocked the mortuary for the police so they could examine the body and as such, was called as a witness in her inquest to help establish the cause of death. Most damningly, he undressed Polly's body with his assistant, despite being under strict instructions from Inspector Spratling to not touch the body, and Trow suspects that this was an opportunity to admire his handiwork. The Coroner, in his summation of Robert Mann's testimony, concluded that, "It appears the mortuary-keeper is subject to fits, and neither his memory nor statements are reliable." Professor Laurence Alison, Forensic Psychologist at Liverpool University, who features in the documentary, said: "In terms of psychological profiling, Robert Mann is the one of the most credible suspects from recent years and the closest we may ever get to a plausible psychological explanation for these most infamous of Victorian murders." Trow's is the latest in a long line of theories about who Jack the Ripper was. More than 100 suspects have been proposed over the years, including a member of the royal family, a doctor and even the artist Walter Sickert. JACK THE RIPPER: KILLER REVEALED will be aired on the Discovery Channel on Sunday October 11 at 9pm. The accompanying book, Jack the Ripper: Quest for a Killer, is published by Pen & Sword.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 11, 2010 11:56:33 GMT
Here it is. Your post. You posted after me.
Mann was way less than intelligent so there's no way I'd give him a glance as Jack.
My boy Jack was street smart, I'd reckon. Not book smart.
I called this thread his motives, his victims.
anna, you're probably better than I am at talking about his victims.
His motive? To mutilate.
Killing was incidental to Jack. The mutilations drove him.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 11, 2010 12:32:36 GMT
Here it is. Your post. You posted after me. Mann was way less than intelligent so there's no way I'd give him a glance as Jack. My boy Jack was street smart, I'd reckon. Not book smart. I called this thread his motives, his victims. anna, you're probably better than I am at talking about his victims. His motive? To mutilate. Killing was incidental to Jack. The mutilations drove him. The video poster by the jtr=Robert Mann video shows a scrawny guy playing Mann's role. Again it's obvious that jtr was quite strong and if Mann even remotely resembled the guy who portrayed him that'd disqualify him immediately.
Motive? I'd compare jtr to a schoolboy, who sneaks into the school to deficate on the teacher's desk. Here the motive is either a filthy game against the school system or an obsession with excrement. I think the former would be the primary motive.
I'm sure jtr enjoyed the mutilations, but his obsession to commit them in public places and jtr's ability to get away convinces me that his target was society for the large part as it was in the "zodiac killer" and "btk" cases. These serial killers are the most difficult to capture.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 12, 2010 12:43:00 GMT
OK.
I've never really asked you this in what? over a year we've discussed this.
Can you explain to me why you think Jack was an exhibitionist? Can you explain why you believe Jack was committing these murders?
Your turn. I'll listen.
Gabe
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 12, 2010 15:33:17 GMT
OK. I've never really asked you this in what? over a year we've discussed this. Can you explain to me why you think Jack was an exhibitionist? Can you explain why you believe Jack was committing these murders? Your turn. I'll listen. Gabe The serial killers of this type aren't exhibitionists in the sense that they want to be identified, which means arrested. The shock effect they cause is an evil pleasure for them that i can't define in any other way. I think the letter with what was claimed to be Catharine Eddowes kidney was likely authentic. I don't believe jtr was as literate as the zodiac killer and the btk killer were/are, but he likely initiated contact with representatives of society and may have like the zodiac killer been capable of altering his handwriting.
Slashers just get arrested after or during their first murder. I can't prove Ressler wrong, but it is just so improbable that someone with that killer profile could get away.
If jtr strangled his victims while "standing up" as some believe he was also immensely strong! Many moderately strong criminals were incapable of strangling a victim pinned to the ground with their hands and feet bound. It's a type of murder that only looks easy in films.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 13, 2010 10:49:17 GMT
OK. I've never really asked you this in what? over a year we've discussed this. Can you explain to me why you think Jack was an exhibitionist? Can you explain why you believe Jack was committing these murders? Your turn. I'll listen. Gabe The serial killers of this type aren't exhibitionists in the sense that they want to be identified, which means arrested. The shock effect they cause is an evil pleasure for them that i can't define in any other way. I think the letter with what was claimed to be Catharine Eddowes kidney was likely authentic. I don't believe jtr was as literate as the zodiac killer and the btk killer were/are, but he likely initiated contact with representatives of society and may have like the zodiac killer been capable of altering his handwriting.
Slashers just get arrested after or during their first murder. I can't prove Ressler wrong, but it is just so improbable that someone with that killer profile could get away.
If jtr strangled his victims while "standing up" as some believe he was also immensely strong! Many moderately strong criminals were incapable of strangling a victim pinned to the ground with their hands and feet bound. It's a type of murder that only looks easy in films.All right. Given that none of the JTR letters are authenticated at this moment in time and that's the truth, then how would Jack be getting his jollies? Other than he showed up at the murder sites to gauge crowd reactions and and read the newspapers. But after 1891, Frances Coles, who was the last one ever seriously considered to be Jack's (and I disagree - I believe Kelly was his last) then how is he getting his moment in the spotlight? If no-one is paying attention to him then he surely would start again? In your theory that's the whole point so he would be ripping women again.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 13, 2010 15:30:53 GMT
The serial killers of this type aren't exhibitionists in the sense that they want to be identified, which means arrested. The shock effect they cause is an evil pleasure for them that i can't define in any other way. I think the letter with what was claimed to be Catharine Eddowes kidney was likely authentic. I don't believe jtr was as literate as the zodiac killer and the btk killer were/are, but he likely initiated contact with representatives of society and may have like the zodiac killer been capable of altering his handwriting.
Slashers just get arrested after or during their first murder. I can't prove Ressler wrong, but it is just so improbable that someone with that killer profile could get away.
If jtr strangled his victims while "standing up" as some believe he was also immensely strong! Many moderately strong criminals were incapable of strangling a victim pinned to the ground with their hands and feet bound. It's a type of murder that only looks easy in films. All right. Given that none of the JTR letters are authenticated at this moment in time and that's the truth, then how would Jack be getting his jollies? Other than he showed up at the murder sites to gauge crowd reactions and and read the newspapers. But after 1891, Frances Coles, who was the last one ever seriously considered to be Jack's (and I disagree - I believe Kelly was his last) then how is he getting his moment in the spotlight? If no-one is paying attention to him then he surely would start again? In your theory that's the whole point so he would be ripping women again. Oh i'm sure jtr was the talk of Whitechapel "after 1891" as he is today in Whitechapel. Serial killers of this ilk can refrain from further murders for decades, like the btr and zodiac killers did. As long as the community is reliving the shock of the murders this type of sk can control it's "murder addiction".
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Post by gabriel on Nov 14, 2010 12:56:38 GMT
Well, actually no, there were a few scares that Jack might be back and prowling a la Frances Coles but basically it all went dead. Leonard Matters wrote the 1st book on Jack in 1929. It's not until the 1970's that Jack roared into busines with Stephen Knight.
But during the 1890's, Jack mania disappeared.
So, if Jack was floating around hoping for more freak outs, then he would have killed again. But he didn't. Because he was dead , in gaol or in a psych ward.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 15, 2010 3:24:49 GMT
Well, actually no, there were a few scares that Jack might be back and prowling a la Frances Coles but basically it all went dead. Leonard Matters wrote the 1st book on Jack in 1929. It's not until the 1970's that Jack roared into busines with Stephen Knight. But during the 1890's, Jack mania disappeared. So, if Jack was floating around hoping for more freak outs, then he would have killed again. But he didn't. Because he was dead , in gaol or in a psych ward. No way did jtr panic disappear! I'm sure virtually everyone in Whitechapel throughout the 1890s was well aware of the jtr story. The New York Times and other foreign newspapers followed the ripper story. The Carrie Brown murder in New York 1891 was immediately suspected to possibly be the work of jtr. The unlikely jtr "suspect" Frederick Deeming was hanged in Austrailia in 1892 admidst jtr hysteria, which newspapers worldwide reported. In 1915 there was "jtr hysteria" in New York.. www.suite101.com/content/jack-the-ripper-in-new-york-city-the-ripper-scares-of-1915-a239329
In 1927 Alfred Hitchcock made his first movie, which was about jtr. "The Lodger".
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Post by gabriel on Nov 15, 2010 11:44:23 GMT
Love the Hitchcock vid. Never seen it before. Thanks. Marie Belloc Lowndes wrote the story of The Lodger and I'm pretty sure she wrote it in the 1890's. I think she was one of Aleister Crowley's groupies - now he's one we've never really discussed on the list of possible Jack's. He wasn't, of course, but he ties in with Sickert and the idea of Jack stuffing parts of women inside his cravat as he scuttled home. Hello dear. Why is the front of your shirt covered in blood and... Doesn't wash does it (excuse the pun).
The coppers took the special patrols out of Whitechapel in 1889 because they either knew or believed Jack was out of business. The private patrols by locals like Mr Lusk were also discontinued.
If there was any real belief that Jack was back in his killing fields, I have no doubt the coppers would have been spread back over the area again.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 15, 2010 16:56:43 GMT
Love the Hitchcock vid. Never seen it before. Thanks. Marie Belloc Lowndes wrote the story of The Lodger and I'm pretty sure she wrote it in the 1890's. I think she was one of Aleister Crowley's groupies - now he's one we've never really discussed on the list of possible Jack's. He wasn't, of course, but he ties in with Sickert and the idea of Jack stuffing parts of women inside his cravat as he scuttled home. Hello dear. Why is the front of your shirt covered in blood and... Doesn't wash does it (excuse the pun). The coppers took the special patrols out of Whitechapel in 1899 because they either knew or believed Jack was out of business. The private patrols by locals like Mr Lusk were also discontinued. If there was any real belief that Jack was back in his killing fields, I have no doubt the coppers would have been spread back over the area again. Crowley was pretty creepy! But i don't think this pen pusher had the strength to strangle a woman or was capable of walking Whitechapel's mean streets at night, without becoming a victim himself.
The comparisons of the Whitechapel murder modus operandi with the traditional Jewish method of slaughtering cattle does disturb me. The first step involves slashing the throat with a deep cut and letting the cow bleed to death after which the cow is disembowled.
I believe jtr had a warped, dark side humor, like the "schoolboy example" I used. If the "slaughtering m.o." is applicable than jtr's identity would be narrowed down to one of the Jewish immigrants. I always get sickened though when attempts are made to attack Jews in general with this angle of investigation.
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Post by gabriel on Nov 16, 2010 10:34:50 GMT
Jack being a Jew is just as reasonable and likely as Jack being anyone else. Particularly given the large number of Jewish immigrants in the East End at the time.
However, the attempts to create a Jewish Jack industry by somehow mystifying traditional Jewish butchering techniques into some sort of diabolical murder theory is wrong.
That just continues to muddy the waters about who Jack was.
I will say again something I firmly believe in. Jack wasn't interested in how he killed - he lucked upon something that worked for him and he kept at it.
It was what he did to the victim after she was dead that mattered to him. That's where he found his release.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Nov 16, 2010 16:01:14 GMT
There was a belief that diseases were transmitted by the blood and thus the throat slashing. Nothing mystical, just a pre science belief.
jtr's crimes were planned and i find it hard to believe that "he lucked upon something that worked for him and he kept at it". He knew how he would use the knife before he killed Polly Nichols.
Again if mutilations were the only goal he could have killed all the victims like he killed Miss Kelly. I don't believe he couldn't control himself, otherwise he would have been noticed.
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Post by Big Lin on Nov 16, 2010 19:32:05 GMT
Actually Crowley was very strong physically. He also believed that it was some guy called Roslyn D'Onston or something like that.
Basically Crowley was only thirteen years old at the time of Jack's activities so it's unlikely he would have been the Ripper.
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