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Post by trubble on Apr 10, 2012 14:09:29 GMT
He was not psychotic at the time... and he is not psychotic now.
from the BBC:
Norway's mass killer Breivik declared sane
A second psychiatric evaluation of Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik has found him sane enough to face trial and a jail term.
The findings contradict a previous evaluation, published in November, that found him legally insane.
Breivik is due to stand trial on Monday over a bomb attack and shooting spree last July that killed 77 people.
Both reports will be considered by the court when it decides whether he should be sent to a psychiatric ward or jail.
The second evaluation was approved by a court in January following widespread criticism of last year's assessment that concluded he was psychotic at the time of the attacks and diagnosed him as a paranoid schizophrenic - meaning he would most likely be detained in psychiatric care.
Many of his surviving victims believed he was sane, and that the only proper punishment would be a prison sentence.
"Our conclusion is that he is not psychotic at the time of the actions of terrorism and he is not psychotic now," psychiatrist Terje Toerrissen, who carried out the second assessment with fellow psychiatrist Agnar Aspaas, told the Associated Press.
....According to prosecutors, nearly 900 people were affected by the two attacks - 325 in Oslo and 564 on Utoeya.
Continue reading the main story
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Post by sadie1263 on Apr 10, 2012 15:36:20 GMT
Ahhh well......could they keep him incarcerated in a mental hospital longer than prison?
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Post by trubble on Apr 10, 2012 16:37:16 GMT
That's my line of thinking too.
I think the best result for everyone (including him probably) would be a sentence in jail followed by an assessment that says he has be to kept in a psychiatric unit for the rest of his life.
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 10, 2012 17:01:27 GMT
I'm not sure how the law works in Norway but in Britain if you get sent to a detention hospital for the criminally insane like Broadmoor or Rampton you are basically held there indefinitely.
Ian Brady (the Moors Murderer), Peter Sutcliffe (the Yorkshire Ripper) and Beverly Allitt (the Angel of Death) are all held in those sort of places and it's been declared by more than one Home Secretary that they will NEVER be released.
That might well be what happens with Breivik.
What angers me is that some people have actually tried to JUSTIFY what he did and seem to regard non-Muslim terrorism as unimportant.
I'm an equal opportuntity condemner of terrorists; my Dad's an Ulster Prod but he had no more time for the UDA than he did for the IRA. And nor do I.
Breivik, like bin Laden and the other scum who think that murder somehow makes their cause more successful, make me want to throw up.
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Post by toby on Apr 10, 2012 20:27:52 GMT
Sadie posted.:-Ahhh well......could they keep him incarcerated in a mental hospital longer than prison?
Toby comments.;- Yes they could, if he gets a jail term then he is out after 21 years with time knocked off for pending trial. Norway's justice system is remarkably lenient !
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Post by toby on Apr 10, 2012 20:30:32 GMT
Lin posted.:-What angers me is that some people have actually tried to JUSTIFY what he did and seem to regard non-Muslim terrorism as unimportant.
Toby comments.;- I know how you feel Lin, when I saw Tony Blair greeting and hugging Nelson Mandela, the guy who planted Bombs that killed and wounded a lot of people both black and white, I wanted to throw up too !
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Post by toby on Apr 10, 2012 20:36:14 GMT
Lin posted.:-I'm not sure how the law works in Norway but in Britain if you get sent to a detention hospital for the criminally insane like Broadmoor or Rampton you are basically held there indefinitely.
Toby comments.:- In Norway if Breivik is found not to be insane then he does his time then gets released. The important thing for Breivik is that he gets his day in Court and can explain why he did what he did. I suppose the Norwegian Government hate the idea of Breivik publiscizing the Immigration scandal which is why they were hoping to have him declared insane. They kept him in solitary too ! I never heard any protest from Amnesty international about that, probably because Breivik has the wrong skin colour.
Those being held in the secure units in the UK always have a chance of a cure and release, it is not indefinate for all inmates !!
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Post by trubble on Apr 11, 2012 9:52:36 GMT
Lin posted.:-What angers me is that some people have actually tried to JUSTIFY what he did and seem to regard non-Muslim terrorism as unimportant. Toby comments.;- I know how you feel Lin, when I saw Tony Blair greeting and hugging Nelson Mandela, the guy who planted Bombs that killed and wounded a lot of people both black and white, I wanted to throw up too ! Perhaps that was a dodgy kebab, because if you understood the complexity of the issues you would have been able to grasp what Mandela did and what he symbolises. (Not to mention that he served a longer lifetime in prison than Breivik will be eligible for) -- plus: Mandela was outspoken in his condemnation of violence, and proactive in achieving peace. For more help, start by reading wiki: In 1961 Mandela became leader of the ANC's armed wing, Umkhonto we Sizwe (translated Spear of the Nation, and also abbreviated MK), which he co-founded.[36] He coordinated sabotage campaigns against military and government targets, making plans for a possible guerrilla war if the sabotage failed to end apartheid.[37] Mandela also raised funds for MK abroad and arranged for paramilitary training of the group.[37]
Fellow ANC member Wolfie Kodesh explains the bombing campaign led by Mandela: "When we knew that we [sic] going to start on 16 December 1961, to blast the symbolic places of apartheid, like pass offices, native magistrates courts, and things like that ... post offices and ... the government offices. But we were to do it in such a way that nobody would be hurt, nobody would get killed."[38] Mandela said of Wolfie: "His knowledge of warfare and his first hand battle experience were extremely helpful to me."[14]
Mandela described the move to armed struggle as a last resort; years of increasing repression and violence from the state convinced him that many years of non-violent protest against apartheid had not and could not achieve any progress.[14][39]
Later, mostly in the 1980s, MK, the organisation co-founded by Mandela, waged a guerrilla war against the apartheid government in which many civilians became casualties..[37] For example, the Church Street bomb in Pretoria killed 19 people and injured 217. After he had become President, Mandela later admitted that the ANC, in its struggle against apartheid, also violated human rights, criticising those in his own party who attempted to remove statements mentioning this from the reports of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.[40] It's difficult at first, but stick with it. Good luck!
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Post by trubble on Apr 11, 2012 10:05:01 GMT
I suppose the Norwegian Government hate the idea of Breivik publicizing the Immigration scandal which is why they were hoping to have him declared insane. Lin has already explained to you that she throws up when people try to legitimize this crime in any way at all. So please don't. I think most people (Norwegian or not, government or not) are concerned only with justice. Most people wouldn't want to attach any argument, about anything, to this dreadful and evil loose cannon. Don't attribute your own nefarious thoughts to the Norwegian Government - that's slander.
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 18, 2012 20:31:00 GMT
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/anders-breivik-execution-pathetic-jail-term?newsfeed=trueAnders Breivik prefers execution over 'pathetic' jail term Gunman tells Oslo court he would rather face capital punishment than the maximum sentence of 21 years Helen Pidd in Oslo guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 18 April 2012 19.16 BST Anders Behring Breivik would rather be executed than receive Norway's "pathetic" maximum punishment of 21 years in jail for the bomb and gun attacks that left 77 dead last summer, he told a court on Wednesday. "There are only two just and fair outcomes in this case," he told Oslo central court: "Acquittal or capital punishment." He said he didn't want to be killed, but said he would "respect" the decision. "I consider 21 years of prison as a pathetic punishment," he said, later describing himself as a "militant Christian" who believed in the afterlife. Norway abolished the death penalty in peacetime in 1905 and for war crimes in 1979. On Tuesday, one of the five original judges trying the case was dismissed after it emerged he had written on Facebook that the death penalty was the "only just thing to do" with Breivik. During his second day in the witness box, the 33-year-old was questioned about his claims to be part of a militant anti-Islamist network founded in London in 2002 called Knights Templar, which the prosecution does not believe exists. Breivik is adamant that it does – and that police haven't tried hard enough to uncover it. He also claimed he knew of two other "one-man cells" in Norway that could attack at any time. Declaring himself an "anti-Nazi", Breivik said Knights Templar had made a conscious decision to distance itself from national socialism "because it was quite blood-stained". He added: "We felt it completely essential to do so. For the extreme right to ever be able to prevail in Europe in the future, one had to distance oneself from the old-school ideology." The difference between him and Hitler, he said, was that "the pillar of National Socialism is expansionism; I am an isolationist". He was also "more liberal on ethnicity" than the Nazis, he added, suggesting he could accept it if "around 2%" of Norway's population was "non-indigenous". The Knights Templar cultural identity was imported from Serbia, he said. The Serbs who died during the Nato bombing of Kosovo in 1999 had a "crusader" mentality to which he aspired. Questioned about his radicalisation, he said that the Serbian bombing was for him "the straw that broke the camel's back". Breivik claims he travelled to London in April 2002 to meet three other "militant nationalists" to form the network, which borrowed the methodology of al-Qaida. Establishing whether Knights Templar exists beyond Breivik's imagination is of key importance in legally determining his sanity, and whether he's sent to prison or compulsory psychiatric care for the massacre that shocked Norway on 22 July last year. Though the longest sentence the court could impose is 21 years, Breivik could be locked up for life if there was "considerable danger" he could strike again. The court always fixes a timeframe that may not exceed 21 years, but when that expires, the offender may be reassessed. The prosecution spent the morning session on Wednesday asking Breivik about trips he made to Liberia and London in 2002. Breivik was questioned in detail about the three people he claimed to have met in London, but refused to reveal any details, including the identity of the "English protestant host" who became his "mentor". That man is named in his 1,801-page "compendium", or manifesto, as Richard the Lionheart. He claimed that his visit to Liberia in April 2002 – backed up by passport checks carried out by police – was made to visit a Serbian war "hero" wanted for war crimes. He refused to reveal the man's name. Breivik told the court he travelled to Liberia, which was at the time in the throws of a bloody civil war, with two cover stories. Arriving in the country, he says he told the Liberian authorities that he was working for the children's charity Unicef. When he met two bodyguards who were to protect him during his stay, he told them he was there to buy blood diamonds, he claimed. Breivik indicated that he saw himself a martyr who had "sacrificed himself" in order to inspire others to follow his example. True role models can achieve credibility through "an action, an operation" he said, comparing himself with "keyboard warriors" who spread their message via the internet. He said: "I think the big problem for militant nationalists in Europe is that there have been very few role models since world war two. If a sofa general is to borrow tradition from al-Qaida and doesn't dare to do it himself but asks others to do it … he wouldn't have any credibility." A person cannot "glorify martyrdom" among "rightist groups in Europe" if he doesn't have the "qualifications for promoting that tradition", he said. Anyone with "a backbone" could follow his example, he insisted, before adding, "maybe not women", then settling on "one in 10 women perhaps". Asked by the prosecutor if he had gained credibility among such groups since the 22 July attacks, Breivik agreed, before adding: "It would be incorrect of me to say anything about that, but what is true is that there are many keyboard warriors who have tried to promote things that can improve us … but they face serious problems because it's difficult to promote martyrdom when you fear death yourself and you are afraid to fight yourself." He contrasted his "operation" with the leftwing German terrorist group known as the Red Army Faction, or Baader Meinhof gang, who he said were atheists who did not want to die because they "didn't believe in the afterlife". He added: "That's what's unique about both militant nationalists and militant Islamists … we do believe in an afterlife, at least many of us [militant nationalists] do, because we are Christians." The Knights Templar are not "Christian fundamentalists" he insisted, saying: "I'm only a little bit religious but preventing the 'deChristianisaton' of Norway and Europe is very important." Breivik admits he set off a bomb outside the government headquarters in Oslo, killing eight, then drove to Utøya island outside the capital and massacred 69 people in a shooting spree at the governing Labour party's youth summer camp. He said his victims, mostly teenagers, were not innocent but legitimate targets because they were representatives of a "multiculturalist" regime he claims is deconstructing Norway's national identity by allowing immigration.
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 18, 2012 20:31:32 GMT
www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/18/anders-breivik-execution-pathetic-jail-term?newsfeed=trueAnders Breivik prefers execution over 'pathetic' jail term Gunman tells Oslo court he would rather face capital punishment than the maximum sentence of 21 years Helen Pidd in Oslo guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 18 April 2012 19.16 BST Anders Behring Breivik would rather be executed than receive Norway's "pathetic" maximum punishment of 21 years in jail for the bomb and gun attacks that left 77 dead last summer, he told a court on Wednesday. "There are only two just and fair outcomes in this case," he told Oslo central court: "Acquittal or capital punishment." He said he didn't want to be killed, but said he would "respect" the decision. "I consider 21 years of prison as a pathetic punishment," he said, later describing himself as a "militant Christian" who believed in the afterlife. Norway abolished the death penalty in peacetime in 1905 and for war crimes in 1979. On Tuesday, one of the five original judges trying the case was dismissed after it emerged he had written on Facebook that the death penalty was the "only just thing to do" with Breivik. During his second day in the witness box, the 33-year-old was questioned about his claims to be part of a militant anti-Islamist network founded in London in 2002 called Knights Templar, which the prosecution does not believe exists. Breivik is adamant that it does – and that police haven't tried hard enough to uncover it. He also claimed he knew of two other "one-man cells" in Norway that could attack at any time. Declaring himself an "anti-Nazi", Breivik said Knights Templar had made a conscious decision to distance itself from national socialism "because it was quite blood-stained". He added: "We felt it completely essential to do so. For the extreme right to ever be able to prevail in Europe in the future, one had to distance oneself from the old-school ideology." The difference between him and Hitler, he said, was that "the pillar of National Socialism is expansionism; I am an isolationist". He was also "more liberal on ethnicity" than the Nazis, he added, suggesting he could accept it if "around 2%" of Norway's population was "non-indigenous". The Knights Templar cultural identity was imported from Serbia, he said. The Serbs who died during the Nato bombing of Kosovo in 1999 had a "crusader" mentality to which he aspired. Questioned about his radicalisation, he said that the Serbian bombing was for him "the straw that broke the camel's back". Breivik claims he travelled to London in April 2002 to meet three other "militant nationalists" to form the network, which borrowed the methodology of al-Qaida. Establishing whether Knights Templar exists beyond Breivik's imagination is of key importance in legally determining his sanity, and whether he's sent to prison or compulsory psychiatric care for the massacre that shocked Norway on 22 July last year. Though the longest sentence the court could impose is 21 years, Breivik could be locked up for life if there was "considerable danger" he could strike again. The court always fixes a timeframe that may not exceed 21 years, but when that expires, the offender may be reassessed. The prosecution spent the morning session on Wednesday asking Breivik about trips he made to Liberia and London in 2002. Breivik was questioned in detail about the three people he claimed to have met in London, but refused to reveal any details, including the identity of the "English protestant host" who became his "mentor". That man is named in his 1,801-page "compendium", or manifesto, as Richard the Lionheart. He claimed that his visit to Liberia in April 2002 – backed up by passport checks carried out by police – was made to visit a Serbian war "hero" wanted for war crimes. He refused to reveal the man's name. Breivik told the court he travelled to Liberia, which was at the time in the throws of a bloody civil war, with two cover stories. Arriving in the country, he says he told the Liberian authorities that he was working for the children's charity Unicef. When he met two bodyguards who were to protect him during his stay, he told them he was there to buy blood diamonds, he claimed. Breivik indicated that he saw himself a martyr who had "sacrificed himself" in order to inspire others to follow his example. True role models can achieve credibility through "an action, an operation" he said, comparing himself with "keyboard warriors" who spread their message via the internet. He said: "I think the big problem for militant nationalists in Europe is that there have been very few role models since world war two. If a sofa general is to borrow tradition from al-Qaida and doesn't dare to do it himself but asks others to do it … he wouldn't have any credibility." A person cannot "glorify martyrdom" among "rightist groups in Europe" if he doesn't have the "qualifications for promoting that tradition", he said. Anyone with "a backbone" could follow his example, he insisted, before adding, "maybe not women", then settling on "one in 10 women perhaps". Asked by the prosecutor if he had gained credibility among such groups since the 22 July attacks, Breivik agreed, before adding: "It would be incorrect of me to say anything about that, but what is true is that there are many keyboard warriors who have tried to promote things that can improve us … but they face serious problems because it's difficult to promote martyrdom when you fear death yourself and you are afraid to fight yourself." He contrasted his "operation" with the leftwing German terrorist group known as the Red Army Faction, or Baader Meinhof gang, who he said were atheists who did not want to die because they "didn't believe in the afterlife". He added: "That's what's unique about both militant nationalists and militant Islamists … we do believe in an afterlife, at least many of us [militant nationalists] do, because we are Christians." The Knights Templar are not "Christian fundamentalists" he insisted, saying: "I'm only a little bit religious but preventing the 'deChristianisaton' of Norway and Europe is very important." Breivik admits he set off a bomb outside the government headquarters in Oslo, killing eight, then drove to Utøya island outside the capital and massacred 69 people in a shooting spree at the governing Labour party's youth summer camp. He said his victims, mostly teenagers, were not innocent but legitimate targets because they were representatives of a "multiculturalist" regime he claims is deconstructing Norway's national identity by allowing immigration.
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Post by trubble on Apr 18, 2012 21:23:42 GMT
So he's still in his own little world then. He's such a to$$er.
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Post by Big Lin on Aug 24, 2012 10:19:30 GMT
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Post by trubble on Aug 24, 2012 14:08:05 GMT
Sanity prevails, Lin.
Are we as bad as him?
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 24, 2012 16:15:25 GMT
I am no longer sure where I stand on the death penalty. While I want to say I'm against it.......if someone killed a loved one of mine....well...all bets would be off.......so how can I really have any major principles about anyone else being for the death penalty....
Yet....I think for some murderers....being in a small cell every day for the rest of their lives is a worse punishment........for others....I think they get off every time they read about their crime....hear a news story about their crime...etc........and I don't think they should get that. They will never feel remorse...and glory in their crimes......and their feeling of being important because of their crime and the fear it has given people........there is no rehabilitating some of these monsters.......and even in nature.....some animals will put down a diseased member of the pack.........
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 24, 2012 18:23:11 GMT
Norwegian gunman Anders Behring Breivik apologized in court to "militant nationalists" for not having killed more than the 77 people he shot to death in a horrific spree last year. The sentence brings a form of closure to Norway, which was shaken to its core by the bomb and gun attacks on July 22, 2011, because Breivik's lawyers said before the ruling that he would not appeal any ruling that did not declare him insane. But it also means Breivik got what he wanted: a ruling that paints him as a political terrorist instead of a psychotic mass murderer. Since his arrest, Breivik has said the attacks were meant to draw attention to his extreme right-wing ideology and to inspire a multi-decade uprising by "militant nationalists" across Europe. Read more: www.foxnews.com/world/2012/08/24/norway-court-deems-breivik-sane-sentences-killer-to-prison/#ixzz24UOeuI6o
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 24, 2012 18:25:49 GMT
No good answer here.......in jail he becomes some type of figure head for these idiot militant nationalists.......dead he becomes a martyr for them........
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Aug 25, 2012 0:48:31 GMT
I don't know how someone committing such a horrific act could possibly be sane.
I do think he should get the death penalty and that it should be administered promptly.
I love Europe but simply can't comprehend their stance on the DP.
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 25, 2012 2:46:29 GMT
I believe he was sane......just people like this have different brain wiring.....or something like that. We won't ever be able to understand it and it's easier for us to think that there is something diseased or malfunctioning about them.........but the fact is.....monsters had to evolve....or they wouldn't survive.
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Post by trubble on Aug 25, 2012 18:18:27 GMT
Sane is a relative term. He's sane, he's just not nice.
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