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Post by trubble on Apr 12, 2012 16:09:08 GMT
Zimmerman wasn't all that reckless. He just used some poor judgment.
Having made the call, Zimmerman should have left it to the police and not played super sleuth.
Trayvon should have put his head down and raced home, and then bitched about Zimmerman to everyone he knew.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 12, 2012 16:25:37 GMT
One unfortunate aspect of this sad case is that Zimmerman is now a celebrity and a household name. He'll get a lot of $$ contributions, a book deal, etc.
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Post by toby on Apr 12, 2012 17:07:53 GMT
Sadie posted.:-Well...he's been charged with second degree murder.
Toby comments.:- Far too severe ! but I reckon they want him to walk. They have little chance of getting a guilty verdict, not with all the information we heard so far.
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Post by toby on Apr 12, 2012 17:11:00 GMT
captain posted.:-Anna - You seem more upset at certain people that want to defend Trayvon then by the fact an unarmed teen was shot and killed.
Toby comments.:- Mr. Zimmermann did not know Trayvon was unarmed, nor did he know he was a teen ! How could he when Trayvon was wearing a Hoodie and it was dark.??
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Post by toby on Apr 12, 2012 17:15:33 GMT
Captain posted.:-I'm guessing you're ignoring the "fact" that, if it's proven to be true
Toby comments.:- But if it is a fact then it must be true, there is no such thing as an untrue fact is there ?
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Post by captain on Apr 12, 2012 17:54:15 GMT
Zimmerman wasn't all that reckless. He just used some poor judgment. Having made the call, Zimmerman should have left it to the police and not played super sleuth. Trayvon should have put his head down and raced home, and then bitched about Zimmerman to everyone he knew. True on both accounts, if what you think you know turns out to be true. The only factual information we have at this point is that Zimmerman was asked by police not to get out of his car to follow Trayvon. It is Zimmerman who escalated the events.
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Post by captain on Apr 12, 2012 18:01:52 GMT
Captain posted.:-I'm guessing you're ignoring the "fact" that, if it's proven to be true Toby comments.:- But if it is a fact then it must be true, there is no such thing as an untrue fact is there ? The "fact" is that Zimmerman acted recklessly. If it is proved that Trayvon was putting a whoop'in on Zimmerman, the "fact" remains it's Zimmermans fault. Hope that's clear...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 18:46:31 GMT
The only factual information we have at this point is that Zimmerman was asked by police not to get out of his car to follow Trayvon. Read more: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crimetalk&action=display&thread=3324&page=8#ixzz1rqxViv4rIs that true, though? I heard a conversation in which Zimmerman said he was going to follow the man (so he could let police know where he was) and the operator said "We don't need you to do that". That might amount to asking someone to stay put, or it might mean just what it said! Or was there more?
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Post by Big Lin on Apr 12, 2012 18:49:04 GMT
The only factual information we have at this point is that Zimmerman was asked by police not to get out of his car to follow Trayvon. Read more: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crimetalk&action=display&thread=3324&page=8#ixzz1rqxViv4rIs that true, though? I heard a conversation in which Zimmerman said he was going to follow the man (so he could let police know where he was) and the operator said "We don't need you to do that". That might amount to asking someone to stay put, or it might mean just what it said! Or was there more? To me, the implication of the operator's words are clearly that he should NOT have made an attempt to pursue Trayvon Martin. I think that's the obvious interpretation of them.
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Post by captain on Apr 12, 2012 18:54:54 GMT
The only factual information we have at this point is that Zimmerman was asked by police not to get out of his car to follow Trayvon. Read more: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crimetalk&action=display&thread=3324&page=8#ixzz1rqxViv4rIs that true, though? I heard a conversation in which Zimmerman said he was going to follow the man (so he could let police know where he was) and the operator said "We don't need you to do that". That might amount to asking someone to stay put, or it might mean just what it said! Or was there more? To me, the implication of the operator's words are clearly that he should NOT have made an attempt to pursue Trayvon Martin. I think that's the obvious interpretation of them. Agreed.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 19:22:20 GMT
It wasn't obvious to me! The BBC news website has today printed summaries of four cases where "stand your ground" succeeded. The second and third I found particularly worrying, but having read them I am more able to understand why police initially let Zimmeerman off without charge. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17693084
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Apr 12, 2012 21:53:12 GMT
Zimmerman is in pain now but he's ultimately going to be happy about this ordeal. Bottom line is that he'll be acquitted. He'll also be a famous celebrity with book advances and speaking engagements. He won't have to work again, and the standard of living for his family will soar. He's going to have to fend off the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but that will elevate him in the eyes of his supporters.
At the end of the day, the jury will realize that he was a volunteer (unpaid) peace officer trying to fight crime in the neighborhood. That's something to be admired.
Circumstances in this particular incident went badly awry. A young man, not quite 18, lost his life. That's very sad but the killing was entirely accidental and actions of the young man contributed to the end result.
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Post by captain on Apr 12, 2012 23:31:21 GMT
Zimmerman is in pain now but he's ultimately going to be happy about this ordeal. Bottom line is that he'll be acquitted. He'll also be a famous celebrity with book advances and speaking engagements. He won't have to work again, and the standard of living for his family will soar. He's going to have to fend off the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but that will elevate him in the eyes of his supporters. At the end of the day, the jury will realize that he was a volunteer (unpaid) peace officer trying to fight crime in the neighborhood. That's something to be admired. Circumstances in this particular incident went badly awry. A young man, not quite 18, lost his life. That's very sad but the killing was entirely accidental and actions of the young man contributed to the end result. That would be a sad day for justice. I hope you're wrong.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 13, 2012 4:28:11 GMT
Dearest Captain, Fists can kill and Trayvon was using his 2 hard fists and was thus not unarmed! Trayvon was also slamming Zimmerman's head on the pavement! He was a strong kid and by no means defenseless! I'm guessing you're ignoring the "fact" that, if it's proven to be true, it was Zimmerman's reckless behavior that put him in that situation. Dearest Captain! So far we have nothing to disprove Mr. Zimmerman's testimony! Martin ran behind the apartments. Zimmerman followed him to see where he was going! That is not reckless! That is being a neighborhood watchman! Martin apparently hid somewhere and when Zimmerman started returning to his SUV Martin emerged from his hiding place and closed in on him. Martin behaved recklessly!
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
e x a l t | s m i t e
karma:
Posts: 11,769
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Apr 13, 2012 4:29:28 GMT
At the moment none of us know with absolute honest to God certainty what happened.
BUT I wouldn't bet a dime on overweight Mr. Zimmerman, if he were to fight quick and agile Trayvon Martin. I don't believe that Zimmerman's wounds were self inflicted. These wounds attest to Martin's strength, aggressiveness and brutality!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 6:04:11 GMT
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 13, 2012 9:41:33 GMT
The only factual information we have at this point is that Zimmerman was asked by police not to get out of his car to follow Trayvon. Read more: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=crimetalk&action=display&thread=3324&page=8#ixzz1rqxViv4rIs that true, though? I heard a conversation in which Zimmerman said he was going to follow the man (so he could let police know where he was) and the operator said "We don't need you to do that". That might amount to asking someone to stay put, or it might mean just what it said! Or was there more? the police dispatcher is NOT a cop, and has no authority to order you to do anything. they advise you. zimmerman chose to ignore the advice.
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 13, 2012 9:49:36 GMT
Zimmerman is in pain now but he's ultimately going to be happy about this ordeal. Bottom line is that he'll be acquitted. He'll also be a famous celebrity with book advances and speaking engagements. He won't have to work again, and the standard of living for his family will soar. He's going to have to fend off the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but that will elevate him in the eyes of his supporters. At the end of the day, the jury will realize that he was a volunteer (unpaid) peace officer trying to fight crime in the neighborhood. That's something to be admired. Circumstances in this particular incident went badly awry. A young man, not quite 18, lost his life. That's very sad but the killing was entirely accidental and actions of the young man contributed to the end result. WRONG lad. our pal zimmerman is going to spend a few years behind bars. the fact that he ignored the dispatcher is obviously totally irrelevant. what IS relevant, is the fact that he followed martin, got out of his car and approached martin, with a loaded gun. for a bit, i didn't understand why she chose to charge him with second degree murder instead of just voluntary manslaughter, which would have been a guaranteed conviction. i checked a bit, and it appears that florida does have implied malice. that is sufficient to convict zimmerman of the second degree murder, just based on what we know at this point, and there is obviously much more. implied malice is a very simple concept. it simply says that if you wilfully do something that you know COULD result in a death, your intent to cause death is proven. you get drunk, get into your car, have a wreck and kill someone, you intended to kill someone, and you are guilty of second degree murder. you do NOT have to have the conscious thought to kill anyone. the result of your actions proves your intent
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 13, 2012 9:50:36 GMT
Zimmerman is in pain now but he's ultimately going to be happy about this ordeal. Bottom line is that he'll be acquitted. He'll also be a famous celebrity with book advances and speaking engagements. He won't have to work again, and the standard of living for his family will soar. He's going to have to fend off the likes of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton but that will elevate him in the eyes of his supporters. At the end of the day, the jury will realize that he was a volunteer (unpaid) peace officer trying to fight crime in the neighborhood. That's something to be admired. Circumstances in this particular incident went badly awry. A young man, not quite 18, lost his life. That's very sad but the killing was entirely accidental and actions of the young man contributed to the end result. That would be a sad day for justice. I hope you're wrong. don't worry, he is. that part about zimmerman being a peace officer is comical as hell
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 13, 2012 9:52:39 GMT
I'm guessing you're ignoring the "fact" that, if it's proven to be true, it was Zimmerman's reckless behavior that put him in that situation. Dearest Captain! So far we have nothing to disprove Mr. Zimmerman's testimony! Martin ran behind the apartments. Zimmerman followed him to see where he was going! That is not reckless! That is being a neighborhood watchman! Martin apparently hid somewhere and when Zimmerman started returning to his SUV Martin emerged from his hiding place and closed in on him. Martin behaved recklessly!of course, that is NOT what happened. zimmerman's story was absurd when he told it, which is why the cop didn't believe him to begin with
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