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Post by trubble on Jul 6, 2011 19:44:42 GMT
Eh? Street sign good (atheists wrong) - agreed. But... In God We Trust Motto of a country that BY LAW cannot have a state/national religion. Motto of a country that claims to have separation of church and state. Motto of a country that claims to allow freedom of religious thought -- and that includes NORMAL people who don't follow any god, never mind the biblical God. One nation under God. (Yeah, that really does not infringe on rational thinking atheists). What's wrong with just ''one nation''? I think it's great that everyone may worship whomever they choose. Now why can't non-worshippers have the same freedom of choice instead of having to be ''under God'' and ''in God'' to trust? If you believe in these freedoms, why shove your choice down anyone else's constitution? exactly how is that establishing a state religion? the atheist is free to choose to not accept that we are a nation under god. in no way is he compelled by law to acknowledge it. THAT is what the first amendment is prohibiting. it has nothing to do with holding a church service in the city hall, or any other such thing. it is ONLY about the fact that government is prohibited from passing a law dictating that one religion is now the state religion, a la the church of england back in the day, and that all must conform to the tenets of that religion. NOWHERE in the first amendment does it give the atheist, nor anyone else, a right to dictate that those who choose to follow a religion be prohibited from doing so, which is the ONLY thing that the anti civil liberties union and the school prayer trip is about there has never been, nor never will be, any merit whatsoever to their argument Don't you think that a National Motto represents anything? Don't you think that pledge of allegiance that mentions God is establishing any kind of belief system? That God is the default?!
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Post by trubble on Jul 6, 2011 19:49:14 GMT
Religious or not, what would offend me is the parsity of thought that came up with the name of "Seven in heaven way". Is that the best they could come up with to honour the memory of brave men? Not so much parsity of thought as the kind of cultural crassness capable of something like a luminous plastic Jesus. The best place to buy a luminous plastic Jesus is probably in the Vatican City. I expect you can get a luminous Pope one too. And a pink luminous Virgin Mary. Perhaps it's BOGOF.
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Post by Liberator on Jul 6, 2011 20:11:04 GMT
The best place to buy a luminous plastic Jesus is probably in the Vatican City. I expect you can get a luminous Pope one too. And a pink luminous Virgin Mary. Perhaps it's BOGOF. Between the Savoy cinema and Penang restaurant, Mary Mediatrix of Grace. If it's religious tat it will be in there for sure! I want a Sacred Heart of Jesus that light pulses with light when switched on. However Evangelicals have their own line in religious tat too.
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 6, 2011 20:17:51 GMT
I love this parsity. If we go on repeating it often enough, it might become a word! Hi Jean! I can't find a definition for parsity either. thesaurus.com/browse/parsityI assume Liberator is trying to say parity. no, he's trying to say paucity
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 6, 2011 20:19:58 GMT
Yes, I did not mean to suggest it was Liberator's word. (Just for the record.) I think it may have been paucity that was meant. it was. context is everything
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Post by iamjumbo on Jul 6, 2011 20:24:28 GMT
exactly how is that establishing a state religion? the atheist is free to choose to not accept that we are a nation under god. in no way is he compelled by law to acknowledge it. THAT is what the first amendment is prohibiting. it has nothing to do with holding a church service in the city hall, or any other such thing. it is ONLY about the fact that government is prohibited from passing a law dictating that one religion is now the state religion, a la the church of england back in the day, and that all must conform to the tenets of that religion. NOWHERE in the first amendment does it give the atheist, nor anyone else, a right to dictate that those who choose to follow a religion be prohibited from doing so, which is the ONLY thing that the anti civil liberties union and the school prayer trip is about there has never been, nor never will be, any merit whatsoever to their argument Don't you think that a National Motto represents anything? Don't you think that pledge of allegiance that mentions God is establishing any kind of belief system? That God is the default?! nope. you have your first amendment right to not say it if you choose. there is no law requiring you to. you can't go to jail for not saying it HUGE difference
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Post by Lauren on Jul 12, 2011 17:13:39 GMT
As an atheist myself, I can understand the argument that people shouldn't assume everyone has a religious affiliation, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Judaism ect... I think it is a valid argument, and that the only separation from religion and the state should be within law and politics. Also, as an atheist, it's a freaking street name. Get over it. I swear, these atheists are just as bad as those people they are arguing against. As a citizen of a country, you have the right to express yourself. You don't like Nativity scenes, don't make one. You don't like the word Christmas, call it X-mas. You don't do Christmas/x-mas trees, don't buy one. This is just another example of people getting mad over something completely trivial. I guess it's true what they say: No one's happy unless someone is angry.
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Post by sadie1263 on Jul 12, 2011 22:11:26 GMT
So true Novak.....it's a street name.....unless the street signs are jumping up and down on people and dragging them to church....what is the deal....it's just stuff to fight over and alienate people. It's amazing to me what people can get upset over.....always extremists on any side of an issue.
I personally believe Heaven and Hell are where you make them.....so Heaven or Hell doesn't have to be a place it can be a state of mind.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2011 10:17:45 GMT
An atheist would say that a dead person no longer has a mind, so can't be in any sort of heaven.
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Post by june on Jul 13, 2011 21:34:05 GMT
I agree with Trubbles post on page 1
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2011 13:05:47 GMT
Trubble pointed out that the dead firefighters had become known as "seven in heaven": once I knew that, I changed my mind about the sign. She also said ". It's a personal commemoration. Personal beliefs are protected by the American Constitution. " Read more: biglinmarshall.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=religion&action=display&thread=2625&page=1#ixzz1S5HoW5poPersonal to whom, though? If all the dead men were believers, fine, and I suppose they must have been or their loved-ones would have said something. Or would they? I wonder!
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Post by sadie1263 on Jul 15, 2011 19:20:53 GMT
We have a street here named Mecca. I never gave it a second thought. Wonder how many streets have that name? If they are going to protest they have to get those also....they can't just pick on Christian ones.
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Post by Lauren on Jul 16, 2011 3:09:18 GMT
We have a street here named Mecca. I never gave it a second thought. Wonder how many streets have that name? If they are going to protest they have to get those also....they can't just pick on Christian ones. Mecca is an actual city name in Saudi Arabia, just deemed the holiest place. I think the reason why those Athiests didn't have a hissy fit over that sign is because it is a real city, with real people in it, located on a map ect. Heaven is subjective, and has not been proven to be real.
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Post by sadie1263 on Jul 16, 2011 3:14:22 GMT
Well....good point.......but if you notice....I never see stories about atheists protesting anything but Christian things......I wonder if they do go after other religions?
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Post by Lauren on Jul 16, 2011 4:56:03 GMT
Well....good point.......but if you notice....I never see stories about atheists protesting anything but Christian things......I wonder if they do go after other religions? They probably do, but there is a never-ending battle between Christians and Atheists, which makes it more public, especially if we are talking about the United States. I mean, in 2009, Florida Christians protested, and wanted a billboard taken down that read: 'Being a good person does not require God. Don't believe in God, you're not alone.' What's the difference between Christians wanting that Atheist sign down, and Atheist wanting to change a clearly Christian belief for a street name? All in all, I think it's stupid to fight over a street name and a billboard.
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Post by sadie1263 on Jul 16, 2011 15:15:54 GMT
Absolutely agree with you Lauren! It's ridiculous. Forget hungry and homeless people and other real concerns.....let's spend time and money fighting over billboards and street signs!!!
But you know......I've never had atheists come knocking on my door trying to recruit me........drives me crazy when church people decide to randomly come read the bible to me!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2011 19:04:36 GMT
A number of Gallup polls have been conducted in the US asking people whether they would vote for certain groups of people (Roman Catholics, Jews, Muslims, older candidates, women, Mormons. Atheists invariably fall to the bottom - for example: www.gallup.com/poll/26611/Some-Americans-Reluctant-Vote-Mormon-72YearOld-Presidential-Candidates.aspxI fail to see what on earth people are frightened of a non-believer. But given this prejudice, atheists might be better keeping quiet about a flippin' street sign.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 16, 2011 22:00:06 GMT
A number of Gallup polls have been conducted in the US asking people whether they would vote for certain groups of people (Roman Catholics, Jews, Muslims, older candidates, women, Mormons. Atheists invariably fall to the bottom - for example: www.gallup.com/poll/26611/Some-Americans-Reluctant-Vote-Mormon-72YearOld-Presidential-Candidates.aspxI fail to see what on earth people are frightened of a non-believer. But given this prejudice, atheists might be better keeping quiet about a flippin' street sign. I'd rather vote for an atheist (even though I'm a Christian) if I found his or her views on most other things more or less what I believed in rather than a religious believer that I disagreed with on almost everything else.
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Post by Liberator on Jul 17, 2011 1:17:31 GMT
I don't want to know. This is where we differ so much from Americans. Your religion is your affair: keep it to yourself. I will instinctively vote against anybody who starts treating political hustings like a pulpit. The majority of people I have heard of who say that God told them to do it are either in the Nick or the Funny Farm. I do not want them in government!
In this country, with Holy Church written into the constitution, that can be difficult. But not impossible. With the amount of abuse of all kinds that has bubbled up about the Church, the days when the unofficial unelected Third House of Dáil Éireann resided in the world's only state without births officially speaking Latin are well and truly over.
Just a thought - I get offended by people who seem to make a career of being offended by anything they disagree with. Fair enough, there are issues of knowingly trying to offend, there are issues of causing offence with derogatory representations that may be genuine ignorance, and there are by far the largest where no matter what the situation, somebody will always beat the victim drum of how offensive they find it and if the situation is changed, somebody else will find that offensive. In most cases, the appropriate response is Get over yourself and find something more important to worry about
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