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Post by aubrey on Dec 7, 2010 18:00:56 GMT
Policy based on anecdotes.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 7, 2010 18:02:27 GMT
Riotgrrl - Why do you think there should be such a thing as a minimum wage? Why should government be intruding into private enterprise? Why not let the free market determine wages, housing costs, food costs, medical costs, etc. Why not just have the government bow out? talk about the ultimate rhetorical question. damn. you know damn well my boy that the free market lunatics are the fools that have caused all the problems to begin with. without government mandates, the disparity between executive pay and the pay of those who actually work for a living would be in the thousands of times rather than just four hundred times
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 8, 2010 2:57:18 GMT
It's been my observation that economic success is the result of entrepreneurial companies like Apple and Exxon creating products and jobs. The government doesn't create anything. They can't regulate and/or tax us into success.
Take a look at Obama's results to date. His administration has taken over companies and spent more money than you can even imagine. Where are the results? I don't see any positive results.
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Post by Big Lin on Dec 8, 2010 10:31:18 GMT
Anyone would think that government intervention was something NEW.
Let's look at a few examples of intervention in the US by Republican administrations.
The abolition of slavery.
The first attempt at positive discrimination through the Reconstruction policy under Grant.
The Sherman anti-trust act.
McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft's 'progressive' and regulatory agenda.
Herbert Hoover's attempts to spend his way out of the depression from 1929 onwards.
Dewey's attempt to make Civil Rights at the heart of his Presidential campaign in 1948.
Eisenhower's attempts to enforce Civil Rights during the 1950s.
Now let's look at the Republican administrations from Nixon onwards. What did they do? They kept the civil airlines and aerospace companies going by awarding them 'defence contracts' that were nothing more than state subsidies.
I'm anything BUT an Obama fan but let's have some honesty here!
All governments, to a greater or lesser degree, subsidise industry and enterprises.
Exxon hardly 'created' oil, by the way.
The government can and does create whatever it wants. Whether or not it SHOULD is another matter but it certainly CAN and DOES.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 9, 2010 23:06:16 GMT
Oh right Jumbo, sorry. I didn't realise that. In the UK they're pretty much the same thing so I didn't realise there was such an important distinction. So if you are on WELFARE pure and simple, how much do you get a week? straight welfare is based on the size of the family. there is no set amount. it is different in every state, loosely based on the cost of living. also, das never bothers to tell us about the fact that, since the welfare reform act, you can only get welfare for five years in your lifetime.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 9, 2010 23:09:29 GMT
It's been my observation that economic success is the result of entrepreneurial companies like Apple and Exxon creating products and jobs. The government doesn't create anything. They can't regulate and/or tax us into success. Take a look at Obama's results to date. His administration has taken over companies and spent more money than you can even imagine. Where are the results? I don't see any positive results. another lie lad, and you really need to open your eyes. if you squint just a little, you see the results. gm just went public again, and has paid back almost half of the loan. aig is doing the same. of course, there is a huge difference there. it was right to bail out gm since they do provide a product. it was wrong to bail out aig
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 9, 2010 23:12:03 GMT
I can fully understand all the reasons Lynne, Jumbo & Skylark have given. But should achieving social justice of this kind be the role of the state? of course. that is the ONLY reason for government to exist to begin with
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 9, 2010 23:13:39 GMT
Anyone would think that government intervention was something NEW. Let's look at a few examples of intervention in the US by Republican administrations. The abolition of slavery. The first attempt at positive discrimination through the Reconstruction policy under Grant. The Sherman anti-trust act. McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft's 'progressive' and regulatory agenda. Herbert Hoover's attempts to spend his way out of the depression from 1929 onwards. Dewey's attempt to make Civil Rights at the heart of his Presidential campaign in 1948. Eisenhower's attempts to enforce Civil Rights during the 1950s. Now let's look at the Republican administrations from Nixon onwards. What did they do? They kept the civil airlines and aerospace companies going by awarding them 'defence contracts' that were nothing more than state subsidies. I'm anything BUT an Obama fan but let's have some honesty here! All governments, to a greater or lesser degree, subsidise industry and enterprises. Exxon hardly 'created' oil, by the way. The government can and does create whatever it wants. Whether or not it SHOULD is another matter but it certainly CAN and DOES. of course, that is reality. corporate welfare is solely the invention of republicans
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 10, 2010 0:58:39 GMT
I'm so glad we have corporations and Capitalism. It is corporations who create most of the jobs, almost all of the products. Without them we wouldn't have houses, cars, supermarkets, etc.
On the other end of the spectrum we have activists like Ralph Nader, anti-business politicians like Obama, and labor unions. They are the ball and chains holding back the economy.
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Post by pumpkinette on Dec 10, 2010 11:00:37 GMT
Anyone would think that government intervention was something NEW. Let's look at a few examples of intervention in the US by Republican administrations. The abolition of slavery. The first attempt at positive discrimination through the Reconstruction policy under Grant. The Sherman anti-trust act. McKinley, Theodore Roosevelt and William Taft's 'progressive' and regulatory agenda. Herbert Hoover's attempts to spend his way out of the depression from 1929 onwards. Dewey's attempt to make Civil Rights at the heart of his Presidential campaign in 1948. Eisenhower's attempts to enforce Civil Rights during the 1950s. Now let's look at the Republican administrations from Nixon onwards. What did they do? They kept the civil airlines and aerospace companies going by awarding them 'defence contracts' that were nothing more than state subsidies. I'm anything BUT an Obama fan but let's have some honesty here! All governments, to a greater or lesser degree, subsidise industry and enterprises. Exxon hardly 'created' oil, by the way. The government can and does create whatever it wants. Whether or not it SHOULD is another matter but it certainly CAN and DOES. of course, that is reality. corporate welfare is solely the invention of republicans As usual, you willfully ignore the WONDERFUL things done by some in the Republican Party. There's a few more wonderful things to add to Biglinmarshall's list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._EisenhowerInterstate highway system: One of Eisenhower's enduring achievements was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956.[46] Civil rights: The Eisenhower administration declared racial discrimination a national security issue, meaning that the Communists around the world were using racial discrimination in the U.S. as a point of propaganda attack.[58] The day after the U.S. Supreme Court handed down its decision in Brown v. Board of Education in which segregated ("separate but equal") schools were ruled to be unconstitutional, Eisenhower told District of Columbia officials to make Washington a model for the rest of the country in integrating black and white public school children.[59][60] He proposed to Congress the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960 and signed those acts into law. The 1957 Act for the first time established a permanent civil rights office inside the Justice Department. Although both Acts were weaker than subsequent civil rights legislation, they constituted the first significant civil rights acts since the Civil Rights Act of 1875, signed by President Ulysses S. Grant. -warning about military/industrial complex There's more things I could list, but I thought of these 1st. Even DUBYA did a few good things, I have to admit! There's no way I'd have ever voted for him (I didn't), but you have to give credit where it's due. As much as I hate Obama, I have to admit HE'S done a few good things. I left the Democratic Party a few years ago, but have to admit there's still great things in its platform.
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 10, 2010 18:54:29 GMT
I'm so glad we have corporations and Capitalism. It is corporations who create most of the jobs, almost all of the products. Without them we wouldn't have houses, cars, supermarkets, etc. On the other end of the spectrum we have activists like Ralph Nader, anti-business politicians like Obama, and labor unions. They are the ball and chains holding back the economy. as usual, you have it exactly backwards lad. your stated wholehearted support for fools like ken lay and bernie madoff doesn't stand you in good stead at all
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 10, 2010 19:06:52 GMT
of course, that is reality. corporate welfare is solely the invention of republicans As usual, you willfully ignore the WONDERFUL things done by some in the Republican Party. There's a few more wonderful things to add to Biglinmarshall's list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._EisenhowerInterstate highway system: One of Eisenhower's enduring achievements was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956.[46] Civil rights: The Eisenhower administration declared racial discrimination a national security issue, meaning that the Communists around the world were using racial discrimination in the U.S. as a point of propaganda attack.[58] The day after the U.S. Supreme Court handed down its decision in Brown v. Board of Education in which segregated ("separate but equal") schools were ruled to be unconstitutional, Eisenhower told District of Columbia officials to make Washington a model for the rest of the country in integrating black and white public school children.[59][60] He proposed to Congress the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960 and signed those acts into law. The 1957 Act for the first time established a permanent civil rights office inside the Justice Department. Although both Acts were weaker than subsequent civil rights legislation, they constituted the first significant civil rights acts since the Civil Rights Act of 1875, signed by President Ulysses S. Grant. -warning about military/industrial complex There's more things I could list, but I thought of these 1st. Even DUBYA did a few good things, I have to admit! There's no way I'd have ever voted for him (I didn't), but you have to give credit where it's due. As much as I hate Obama, I have to admit HE'S done a few good things. I left the Democratic Party a few years ago, but have to admit there's still great things in its platform. nope. i've ALWAYS given dumbya credit for what he did. hell, he more than doubled the national debt, turned the largest budget surplus in history into the largest deficit ever, and invaded iraq for the sole purpose of enriching haliburton and exxon mobil. if you want to call that accomplishment, you're more than welcome to.
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Post by pumpkinette on Dec 11, 2010 13:54:40 GMT
As usual, you willfully ignore the WONDERFUL things done by some in the Republican Party. There's a few more wonderful things to add to Biglinmarshall's list: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_D._EisenhowerInterstate highway system: One of Eisenhower's enduring achievements was championing and signing the bill that authorized the Interstate Highway System in 1956.[46] Civil rights: The Eisenhower administration declared racial discrimination a national security issue, meaning that the Communists around the world were using racial discrimination in the U.S. as a point of propaganda attack.[58] The day after the U.S. Supreme Court handed down its decision in Brown v. Board of Education in which segregated ("separate but equal") schools were ruled to be unconstitutional, Eisenhower told District of Columbia officials to make Washington a model for the rest of the country in integrating black and white public school children.[59][60] He proposed to Congress the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960 and signed those acts into law. The 1957 Act for the first time established a permanent civil rights office inside the Justice Department. Although both Acts were weaker than subsequent civil rights legislation, they constituted the first significant civil rights acts since the Civil Rights Act of 1875, signed by President Ulysses S. Grant. -warning about military/industrial complex There's more things I could list, but I thought of these 1st. Even DUBYA did a few good things, I have to admit! There's no way I'd have ever voted for him (I didn't), but you have to give credit where it's due. As much as I hate Obama, I have to admit HE'S done a few good things. I left the Democratic Party a few years ago, but have to admit there's still great things in its platform. nope. i've ALWAYS given dumbya credit for what he did. hell, he more than doubled the national debt, turned the largest budget surplus in history into the largest deficit ever, and invaded iraq for the sole purpose of enriching haliburton and exxon mobil. if you want to call that accomplishment, you're more than welcome to. Here we go again...I wasn't talking about the EVIL things Dubya did. I was talking about the FEW good things he did! Those he deserves credit for, even if they were done to "look good". I think they were. I'm with you 100% on the evils you listed that Dubya did. I was talking about the few good things Dubya did. You make blanket statements all the time about Republicans that aren't fair. I was pointing that out once again.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 12, 2010 1:15:28 GMT
Jumbo - I've never supported Ken Lay or Bernie Madoff. Neither of them is representative of corporate America. Steve Jobs is my number 1 hero. His only failing is that he's a lifelong Democrat. Just shows that he needs to stick to technology (where he is the number 1 leader) and stay out of politics (not his field of expertise).
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 12, 2010 22:04:02 GMT
Jumbo - I've never supported Ken Lay or Bernie Madoff. Neither of them is representative of corporate America. Steve Jobs is my number 1 hero. His only failing is that he's a lifelong Democrat. Just shows that he needs to stick to technology (where he is the number 1 leader) and stay out of politics (not his field of expertise). that's where you always lose. lay and madoff ARE the epitome of corporate america. they are the rule, jobs is the exception, the VERY rare exception there are of course, a couple of intelligent corporate types. bill gates and warren buffett both know that the rich should pay higher taxes
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 12, 2010 22:07:53 GMT
nope. i've ALWAYS given dumbya credit for what he did. hell, he more than doubled the national debt, turned the largest budget surplus in history into the largest deficit ever, and invaded iraq for the sole purpose of enriching haliburton and exxon mobil. if you want to call that accomplishment, you're more than welcome to. Here we go again...I wasn't talking about the EVIL things Dubya did. I was talking about the FEW good things he did! Those he deserves credit for, even if they were done to "look good". I think they were. I'm with you 100% on the evils you listed that Dubya did. I was talking about the few good things Dubya did. You make blanket statements all the time about Republicans that aren't fair. I was pointing that out once again. i have yet to see even one good thing that dumbya did. i just point out what the republcians say. the simple fact is that EVERYTHING that das admires about republicans is inherently wrong and evil. that's the typical republican mantra. there used to be intelligent republicans. jacob javits, mark hatfield, and pete mccloskey were real americans, in spite of the fact that they were republcians
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Dec 19, 2010 2:00:58 GMT
Jumbo - One of these days, I think sooner rather than later, you are going to come to your senses and realize that the Democrats do not have your best interests in mind. They are the party of self interest seeking power and control for themselves. The Republicans are considerably more principled.
GW Bush was one of our greatest Presidents. That's because he was (and is) a man with a compass and a solid ethical base. He didn't need to run an overnight poll to establish his position on an issue (as did Clinton). He was never beholding to the worst of the worst special interest groups like Obama and Clinton (labor unions, government employees, trial lawyers, illegal aliens, etc.).
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Post by aubrey on Dec 19, 2010 11:51:16 GMT
A Republican solid ethical base:
Republicans beholden to:
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 19, 2010 12:14:51 GMT
Jumbo - One of these days, I think sooner rather than later, you are going to come to your senses and realize that the Democrats do not have your best interests in mind. They are the party of self interest seeking power and control for themselves. The Republicans are considerably more principled. GW Bush was one of our greatest Presidents. That's because he was (and is) a man with a compass and a solid ethical base. He didn't need to run an overnight poll to establish his position on an issue (as did Clinton). He was never beholding to the worst of the worst special interest groups like Obama and Clinton (labor unions, government employees, trial lawyers, illegal aliens, etc.). wrong lad. dumbya was beholden to the very worst, the most evil, interest groups, a la oil companies, corporations, banks etc. the very bottom of the scum barrel. with the sole exception of the aliens, EVERYONE on your list are real americans
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Post by iamjumbo on Dec 19, 2010 12:17:00 GMT
A Republican solid ethical base: Republicans beholden to: republican and ethical are a contradiction of terms
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