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Post by fretslider on Jul 26, 2010 18:03:45 GMT
I listened into 'Beyond Belief', the religious affairs programme on Radio 4, this afternoon. Today it featured an advocate of the school of Islamic thought that holds that 'music is unislamic'. They, of course had a counterbalancing view, but this guy literally was beyond belief. The idea that something as wonderful and powerful as music can offend their god is absolutely... abnormal with a capital A. But there it was being given airtime on a flagship station. Muslim children are being withdrawn from music lessons because some families believe learning an instrument is anti-Islamic, it has emerged. [ A number of schools are allowing Muslim parents to pull their children out of classes, even though the subject is a formal part of the national curriculum. Dr Diana Harris, a lecturer at the Open University, said she had visited schools where half of pupils were withdrawn from music during Ramadan. By law, children are supposed to take part in all subjects and parents can only remove children from sex and religious education. But Dr Harris claimed Ofsted inspectors sometimes turned “a blind eye” to the issue. In one London primary school, 20 pupils were removed from rehearsals for a Christmas musical and one five-year-old girl has been permanently withdrawn from all classes. The details emerged in a BBC London News investigation. Eileen Ross, head of Herbert Morrison Primary in Lambeth, where almost a third of children come from mainly Somalian Muslim families, said some parents “don't want children to play musical instruments and they don't have music in their homes”. “There’s been about 18 or 22 children withdrawn from certain sessions, out of music class, but at the moment I just have one child who is withdrawn continually from the music curriculum,” she said. “It’s not part of their belief, they feel it detracts from their faith.” Dr Harris, author of the book “Music Education and Muslims”, told the BBC: “Most of them really didn’t know why they were withdrawing their children. “The majority of them were doing it because they had just learned that it wasn’t acceptable and one of the sources giving out that feeling was the Imams particularly Imams who had come over from Pakistan, didn’t really speak English ] In Pakistan, 2007...May 9: Video and music shopkeepers in Mardan district have reportedly sought protection from the government after two bombs exploded in the video market in the Parhuti area of Mardan at 1am, destroying 15 shops. In Charsadda, unidentified men blew up two music shops at Mir Abad in the Umerzai police precincts. November 14: Two music centres were destroyed partially when a bomb planted near Gam Ghol in the Kohat area exploded. However, no casualties were reported. Militants blew up another music centre in Teri Bazaar in the Karak district. November 22: Eight video and music shops were badly damaged by a powerful bomb blast at the Punjab Regimental Centre market in the Mardan district. December 20: An internet centre and two CD shops were blown up in various areas of Peshawar. According to police, the explosives had been planted inside the shops. An unnamed senior police official said the explosion left police with no other option but to force the owners of internet centres, snooker clubs, CD and video shops to close their businesses, which was not being tolerated by the Taliban. December 23: A CD shop was blown up in the Irfan Market in the Lower Azakhel area of Nowshera district. December 26: A music centre situated in the Bano Market of Dera Ismail Khan was blown up. That's just a few to be going on with, there are an awful lot of bombs going off over there. The guy on the radio - can't find the name - was pretty adamant about his point. Rap, ie more spoken than sung, singing, instruments, music, the whole shebang are unislamic. Now we have yet another rift opening up. They appear to be determined to continue to set themselves apart. To be on the safe side this outfit put up a disclaimer... "The subject of music's permissibility in Islam has drawn sizable debate from all corners of the Ummah. There are some scholars that say it is haram (forbidden) in all cases, some that say no musical instruments can be used, and some say it's halal (permissible) as long as it doesn't contain content which violates the principles of Islam (i.e. sex, drugs, violence, profanity). We take the latter viewpoint on this matter." Mad as a box of frogs
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Post by mouse on Jul 29, 2010 9:53:08 GMT
so beethoven ok then...mozart etc would seem not it apears its considered ""christian""
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Post by aubrey on Aug 2, 2010 20:05:17 GMT
Bach wrote a cantata in favour of an illegal drug (coffee). And everything esle was Xtian (even the instrumental stuff).
Zappa wrote a musical about a world where music was illegal, in 1980. He put a note on the sleeve, saying that it was a silly story, and it couldn't happen - except, look at Iran.
But even Christers have had problems with music in churches. There used to be little bands accompanying the hymns in churches, until replaced by the more austere sound of the organ. Some would have prefered no backing at all, just a more or less tuneless chant.
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Post by mouse on Aug 3, 2010 6:09:04 GMT
Bach wrote a cantata in favour of an illegal drug (coffee). And everything esle was Xtian (even the instrumental stuff). But even Christers have had problems with music in churches. There used to be little bands accompanying the hymns in churches, until replaced by the more austere sound of the organ. Some would have prefered no backing at all, just a more or less tuneless chant. beethoven wrote a great deal that wasnt christian...any way how can music be christian....the words can indicate but not the music the music well before instrumental via harpsichord piano or organ was the human singing voice... and am not sure about tuneless chant...i have a recording of a missa congo[congo mass]...no music by intrument just voices blending.....and beautiful....and there are still churches where matins are chanted and blended...lovely
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Post by pumpkinette on Aug 3, 2010 11:49:19 GMT
Bach wrote a cantata in favour of an illegal drug (coffee). And everything esle was Xtian (even the instrumental stuff). Zappa wrote a musical about a world where music was illegal, in 1980. He put a note on the sleeve, saying that it was a silly story, and it couldn't happen - except, look at Iran. But even Christers have had problems with music in churches. There used to be little bands accompanying the hymns in churches, until replaced by the more austere sound of the organ. Some would have prefered no backing at all, just a more or less tuneless chant. There still are bands in some churches. The church where I go has 1 which includes drums ( ;D).
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Post by aubrey on Aug 14, 2010 18:21:08 GMT
Not sure that I'd like drums (which is the instrument I used to play).
Thomas Hardy used to play an instrument in as church band; one of his books (I think the Woodlanders though I'm not sure) had a church band.
Bach wrote an awful lot of secular music; but I think that everything he wrote was dedicated to God. With some of the great fugues of his old age, he might have assumed that only God would understand what he was doing.
He was imprisoned for a time, and spent that time writing a little book of organ pieces based on Lutherian hymn tunes: purely instrumental, but deeply religious.
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Post by mouse on Aug 14, 2010 18:41:00 GMT
But even Christers have had problems with music in churches. There used to be little bands accompanying the hymns in churches, until replaced by the more austere sound of the organ. Some would have prefered no backing at all, just a more or less tuneless chant. but no edictis from canterbury
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Post by aubrey on Aug 14, 2010 18:46:58 GMT
No. Just local people thinking enjoyable music in churches is wrong. Quite a lot like the way Islam does things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2010 19:02:44 GMT
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Post by mouse on Aug 15, 2010 6:31:58 GMT
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Post by mouse on Aug 15, 2010 6:34:09 GMT
No. Just local people thinking enjoyable music in churches is wrong. Quite a lot like the way Islam does things. ah local people...not an order then...phewwwwww mind you what is enjoyable to one can be quite horrendous to another...but as longs as there are no ""laws"" and edicts
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Post by fretslider on Aug 15, 2010 8:42:05 GMT
Why does the devil have all the fun?
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Post by aubrey on Aug 15, 2010 10:25:11 GMT
No. Just local people thinking enjoyable music in churches is wrong. Quite a lot like the way Islam does things. ah local people...not an order then...phewwwwww mind you what is enjoyable to one can be quite horrendous to another...but as longs as there are no ""laws"" and edicts Actually, I don't know - I'm assuming, from the fact that it didn't happen all over. I do know that Catholic music tends to be more austere than Protestant (which is weird, considering how they love their fripperies in clothing and ceremony); and that Bach sometimes had trouble getting his music performed in some Churches (but I'll have to look this up). The devil never had the best tunes; notation was developed in churches, and for a long time the only music written was written for churches. I don't know why Booth said that; he must have known about good church music (just trying to big himself up, I suppose).
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Post by jean on Aug 30, 2010 17:53:08 GMT
I do know that Catholic music tends to be more austere than Protestant Missed this thread ...Aubrey, wherever did you get that idea?
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Post by aubrey on Aug 30, 2010 19:05:49 GMT
I do know that Catholic music tends to be more austere than Protestant Missed this thread ...Aubrey, wherever did you get that idea? From Bach, really. I was thinking of him having some trouble with some churches, who did not like instruments being used; but that would have been all Lutherian. As soon as I wrote it I thought, you don't really know that. Eek!
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Post by sadie1263 on Aug 30, 2010 20:25:32 GMT
Is there any reason why they believe music offends "their" God.....or is this just one of these things they randomly decided?
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Post by june on Aug 30, 2010 20:36:50 GMT
Is there any reason why they believe music offends "their" God.....or is this just one of these things they randomly decided? same reason many christians feel the same way I imagine
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Post by jean on Aug 30, 2010 20:59:23 GMT
Aubrey, here are two wonderful and very complex pieces of liturgical music from the period immediately before the Reformation, when Catholic music was at its most complex.
I will explain more later.
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Post by beth on Aug 30, 2010 21:24:52 GMT
Is there any reason why they believe music offends "their" God.....or is this just one of these things they randomly decided? same reason many christians feel the same way I imagine Most of the Christian churches that oppose music are very conservative fundamentalists. I think they are ok with the singing voice, but have the strange idea musical instruments are sinful. Probably afraid somebody might have fun (gods forbid).
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Post by june on Aug 30, 2010 21:37:56 GMT
same reason many christians feel the same way I imagine Most of the Christian churches that oppose music are very conservative fundamentalists. I think they are ok with the singing voice, but have the strange idea musical instruments are sinful. Probably afraid somebody might have fun (gods forbid). the devil is behind fun - and he has the best tunes too ;D
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