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Post by beez0811 on Jul 6, 2010 2:38:38 GMT
If some illegals have some children on this side of the border, what should be done with the children? What should be done with the parents? The parents are illegals, but the children are citizens. Suggestions?
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 6, 2010 15:33:24 GMT
This is a very tough one, Beez. I honestly don't think there's a 'one size fits all' answer to it.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 6, 2010 15:41:01 GMT
It's up to the Americans how they want it.
I believe you had the 'born in America makes you American' rule because you are a country founded on largescale immigration, and such a rule made sense.
Of course, in older nations in Europe, being born in a particular nation does not usually confer any rights of citizenship at all.
Lin, one size has to fit all in the USA. They have to decide if they want to overturn their constitution and stop automatically creating American citizens out of the children of illegal immigrants. And, as we all know from the gun control debate, what kind of a pinko wants to tamper with the constitution?
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Post by beez0811 on Jul 6, 2010 21:09:58 GMT
We would have to make a "one size fits all" kind of rule. There would always be exceptions, but few and far between. Since we have technology, we could keep record of their births and DNA (though that is a bit overboard and creepy) but have them either become full citizens once they are 18. If their parents become full citizens, they also become full citizens. Any other ideas since mine is a little weird?
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Post by chefmate on Jul 7, 2010 1:53:06 GMT
First thing I would do is stop the "anchor baby' laws and go back to what we originally had as a law.....your parents had to be citizens of the U.S. in order for the child to be considered a citizen.
It's just another way the democrats [communists] have helped destroy our country.
I guess I would throw the parents out and take their anchor baby with them and the kid can come back when it turns 18.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 7, 2010 6:45:12 GMT
First thing I would do is stop the "anchor baby' laws and go back to what we originally had as a law.....your parents had to be citizens of the U.S. in order for the child to be considered a citizen. It's just another way the democrats [communists] have helped destroy our country. I guess I would throw the parents out and take their anchor baby with them and the kid can come back when it turns 18. When you say change the laws, you mean repeal the 14th amendment to the constitution I assume? And why do you think that Communists are to blame for the 14th amendmentment?
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Post by chefmate on Jul 7, 2010 14:52:32 GMT
First thing I would do is stop the "anchor baby' laws and go back to what we originally had as a law.....your parents had to be citizens of the U.S. in order for the child to be considered a citizen. It's just another way the democrats [communists] have helped destroy our country. I guess I would throw the parents out and take their anchor baby with them and the kid can come back when it turns 18. When you say change the laws, you mean repeal the 14th amendment to the constitution I assume? And why do you think that Communists are to blame for the 14th amendmentment? I believe communism and socialism are behind the democratic party......I'll post an article I found to kind of back it up; not saying the republicans are much better at times......it just seems common sense has flown out the window
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 7, 2010 15:50:54 GMT
Chefmate, what are you talking about?
The 14th amendment was drafted by John Bingham, the Republican politician surely?
Nothing to do with the Democrats, or Communists, or Socialists or whatever . . .
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Post by beez0811 on Jul 7, 2010 21:23:07 GMT
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 7, 2010 22:11:18 GMT
You mean they were Communists. The American post-civil war reconstruction was a Communist plot.
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Post by jade on Jul 8, 2010 15:13:32 GMT
This thread got weird very quickly!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 8, 2010 16:07:03 GMT
14th Ammendment Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
___ Yes I do think that should be revised. Chefmate is correct.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Jul 10, 2010 16:38:16 GMT
Here's an example of the ethical dilemma that the 14th amendment can raise.
The USA deported ten Russian spies yesterday as part of a prisoner exchange. These spies were in America for years. Some of them had children here. Those children are U.S. Citizens under our laws.
MOSCOW, July 9 (Xinhua) -- Russian diplomatic missions abroad will help the children of the Russian citizens convicted of spying in the United States return to their parents, the RIA Novosti news agency reported Friday.
"Russian diplomatic missions abroad will provide what assistance they can in resolving issues related to the return of the children of Russian citizens, accused in the U.S. of espionage," the Foreign Ministry said.
Earlier, the U.S. said it would not create obstacles to the return of the children to their parents in Russia.
Among the accused, there are four married couples with a total of seven children.
The 17-year-old son of Vicky Pelaez and Mikhail Vasenkov, who had been known as Juan Lazaro from Uruguay, was expected to stay in the United States with his 38-year-old half-brother, Pelaez's son from a previous marriage.
Mikhail Kutsik and Natalia Pereverzeva, who were known as Michael Zottoli and Patricia Mills, began soon after their arrest to make arrangements for their two children, aged 1 and 3, to go to Russia.
It is not yet clear what will happen to the other four children.
Meanwhile an unnamed Russian security official was quoted by news agencies as saying that the Russian plane carrying 10 convicted Russian spies was headed to Moscow from Vienna.
Two planes, one from Russia and the other from U.S., involved in the spy swap deal took off from the Vienna airport Friday. The flights were believed to be carrying agents in a 14-person exchange.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 10, 2010 23:09:34 GMT
Here's an example of the ethical dilemma that the 14th amendment can raise. The USA deported ten Russian spies yesterday as part of a prisoner exchange. These spies were in America for years. Some of them had children here. Those children are U.S. Citizens under our laws. MOSCOW, July 9 (Xinhua) -- Russian diplomatic missions abroad will help the children of the Russian citizens convicted of spying in the United States return to their parents, the RIA Novosti news agency reported Friday. "Russian diplomatic missions abroad will provide what assistance they can in resolving issues related to the return of the children of Russian citizens, accused in the U.S. of espionage," the Foreign Ministry said. Earlier, the U.S. said it would not create obstacles to the return of the children to their parents in Russia. Among the accused, there are four married couples with a total of seven children. The 17-year-old son of Vicky Pelaez and Mikhail Vasenkov, who had been known as Juan Lazaro from Uruguay, was expected to stay in the United States with his 38-year-old half-brother, Pelaez's son from a previous marriage. Mikhail Kutsik and Natalia Pereverzeva, who were known as Michael Zottoli and Patricia Mills, began soon after their arrest to make arrangements for their two children, aged 1 and 3, to go to Russia. It is not yet clear what will happen to the other four children. Meanwhile an unnamed Russian security official was quoted by news agencies as saying that the Russian plane carrying 10 convicted Russian spies was headed to Moscow from Vienna. Two planes, one from Russia and the other from U.S., involved in the spy swap deal took off from the Vienna airport Friday. The flights were believed to be carrying agents in a 14-person exchange. I just don't see what dilemma that raises. The kids who are US citizens can live in the USA. The adults who aren't, can't. So, presumably the kids live elsewhere with their parents until they're old enough to decide for themselves if they want to live in the USA without their parents, The dilemma is for the private individuals concerned, not a political issue. Any way of conferring citizenship is going to throw up the odd one or two cases like this where the citizenship of the parents and the citizenship of the children in a family are not the same. It's no biggie.
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Post by beez0811 on Jul 11, 2010 0:58:39 GMT
The thing is that some want to grant immunity or give the parents an easy street to citizenship since their kids are citizens. By doing that, they're rewarding the illegals' law-violations.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2010 6:09:07 GMT
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Post by mouse on Jul 11, 2010 6:54:27 GMT
which is exactly how it should be...other wise it de bases the whole concept
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 11, 2010 11:05:32 GMT
The thing is that some want to grant immunity or give the parents an easy street to citizenship since their kids are citizens. By doing that, they're rewarding the illegals' law-violations. I have a question for the Americans. How easy (or difficult) is it for someone to LEGALLY become a US citizen? (An adult born elsewhere I mean.) If I have understood the debate correctly, it is primarily illegal immigrants from Mexico that are being seen as a problem in some states. How hard (or easy) is it for a Mexican to come to the USA legally?
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Post by beez0811 on Jul 11, 2010 16:19:28 GMT
There is the usual paperwork and the waiting, but some of them probably don't know how to do that or don't want to do it the right way. I know some of them want to simply come over to our side of the border for a better life. I understand, but you still have to do things the right way.
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Post by riotgrrl on Jul 11, 2010 16:21:26 GMT
There is the usual paperwork and the waiting, but some of them probably don't know how to do that or don't want to do it the right way. I know some of them want to simply come over to our side of the border for a better life. I understand, but you still have to do things the right way. So do they have to wait long to be accepted? Do they have to have particular skills or training to be accepted as legal immigrants into the USA?
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