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Post by jade on Apr 8, 2010 12:07:34 GMT
• Cameron launched plans for a national citizen service. He descibed it as a "non-military national service".
He's talked about the idea before – he floated the proposal before he became Tory leader – and today he stressed that the idea was practical because it has already been piloted by the party.
He said it would involved 16-year-olds in a two-month programme incorporating teamwork, learning skills and social action. It would be voluntary, but he would like it to be something teenagers wanted to do.
It would be provided by charities, social enterprises and businesses and funded with money from the community cohesion programmes the Tories say are discredited.
LINKso the Tory Big Idea is to get youngsters to volunteer for two months to "build their character" rather as he did when he was at Eton Well actually he did it as part of being at Eton, not after he left - one asumes he is talking about kids doing this after they leave school. It has a lot to recommend it. Kids should learn from doing voluntary work, it will halp them see new things and experience different worlds. I do have (as you would expect) a couple of reservations: its 2 months - not a long time. But at 16 its a pivotal time. It would either take you away from 6th form of Colelge at a critical time. None of the courses I know of would allow a 2 month break, so would it acutally mean you delay your education for a year and "waste" the other 10 months of that year? Or is it perhaps only really aimed at those kids that have chosen not to do anything with their lives. What makes him think that these kids are motivated to volunteer? If it is only really aimed at providing something worthwhile for unemployed kids, how is it different to the volunteering option of the New Deal programme - except that this is for longer and includes training and jobsearch? Kids can volunteer currently. Right now a 16 year old can do a lot of volunteering. So what is new here? Compulsion is not being made a feature so I am struggling to think what would be different. Other than marketing of course. One of the things that hampers a kid from volunteering is that anyone they come into contact with probably has to have their backgrounds checked out (skylark?) so that would hamper this as well. I might be wrong on this as I am no expert in CRB checks. However as a parent even at 16 I would want some checks done. Especially if any of these involved residentials. And another thing - this has a really familiar ring about it. I wonder what it could be. O yes. It was a Labour Initiative only last year: England's higher education minister David Lammy has backed calls for a national army of volunteers to help the UK economy out of recession.
The idea comes from a report which also calls for students to do 100 hours of "compulsory civic service".
The Demos report argues youngsters aged 18 to 24 on such a scheme should be entitled to the means-tested grants and loans available to university students.
Mr Lammy said a national civic service should be in the next Labour manifesto.
The proposal from the think tank Demos suggests people should get the opportunity to take part in a national service-style scheme at key points in their lives; during school, in further education and on gap years between school and university.
I hope the recommendations from this excellent report find their way in to the next Labour manifesto
David Lammy Higher Education Minister Employers would have to allow their staff to take a week off a year to take part in the service.
But its key proposal is that 18 to 24-year-olds not in education, employment or training would also be entitled to means-tested loans and grants like those on offer to university students, if they took part in the scheme.
It would take the form of structured service as part of training for the workplace and they would keep their entitlement to benefits while they did so.
Meanwhile, university students would be required to carry out 100 hours of community service in recognition of the subsidy the state pays towards their education - estimated at £8,000.
The £450m cost of the scheme would be funded by levying interest on student loans.
Report author Sonia Sodha said: "A civic corps serving the nation will help local communities, ease the burden on public services and boost young people's employability at a time when the recession is biting."LINKat the time David Lammy said: I hope the recommendations from this excellent report find their way in to the next Labour manifesto Looks like it is going to be in both, David.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2010 16:13:14 GMT
Jade, I know very little about CRB checks, but took a peek at the Home Office site and found that for their purposes "child" is someone under 18, or under 16 if employed. So if the work was classed as employment, no enhanced CRB would be needed. If the voluntary work involves children or vulnerable adults, presumably the volunteers would need to be checked.
Is the idea to take the youngsters away from home, and give them a taste of living in a different environment, as National Service would? If so, 16 is too young IMO.
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Post by mouse on Apr 8, 2010 17:24:49 GMT
national service..mm well the army dont want them .....but 2 mths is nothing...probably wouldnt make a dint in the lives of some and other would wriggle out other than that these nothing wrong with making teenagers do some voluntry work BUT making them rather takes the voluntry out of it now if they were to bring back some disipline and instill some self disipline in schools...satart with the teeny weenies
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 8, 2010 19:12:00 GMT
national service..mm well the army dont want them .....but 2 mths is nothing...probably wouldnt make a dint in the lives of some and other would wriggle out other than that these nothing wrong with making teenagers do some voluntry work BUT making them rather takes the voluntry out of it now if they were to bring back some disipline and instill some self disipline in schools...satart with the teeny weenies the idea should be to make them WANT to volunteer
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2010 20:30:40 GMT
We have VSO, and the USA has the Peace Corps...but both of those involve work abroad, from what I can see.
Why not have a home-based equivalent, giving young people a chance to work and live away from home for a few months? A lot would jump at it - a different environment, a community spirit - and it would look good on any CV.
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 8, 2010 22:29:09 GMT
We have VSO, and the USA has the Peace Corps...but both of those involve work abroad, from what I can see. Why not have a home-based equivalent, giving young people a chance to work and live away from home for a few months? A lot would jump at it - a different environment, a community spirit - and it would look good on any CV. the peace corps is two years. this thing is two months. they can't learn ANYTHING in two months, at least that will benefit them for the future.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2010 6:50:50 GMT
When I was about 18 I lived and worked in a children's home, with 13 - 16 year old teenage girls who were in need of care or awaiting trial. The scheme was run by Community Service Volunteers which is, I think, operating. Jumbo, I was there only a few months (maybe three) and it taught be an awful lot!
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Post by jade on Apr 9, 2010 8:01:25 GMT
I am not sure anyone is saying that it should be "paid" do I guess it is only for those not needing to earn a living, or those NEETs that could volunteer anyway now, if htey wanted to.
It would certainly get in the way of doing anything positive like enrolling on a college course or doing an apprenticeship
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Post by mouse on Apr 9, 2010 8:16:18 GMT
I am not sure anyone is saying that it should be "paid" do I guess it is only for those not needing to earn a living, or those NEETs that could volunteer anyway now, if htey wanted to. It would certainly get in the way of doing anything positive like enrolling on a college course or doing an apprenticeship no need for it to get in the way of anthything..in fact it could be an aid in that volunteers be given prefference when enrolling for courses college or apreticships
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Post by jade on Apr 9, 2010 8:49:14 GMT
but you would have to waste a year wouldn't you? Say you leave school in the July, you want to go to College which enrols Spetember - when can you do this?
Or maybe the target group are those who didn't do anything and this "reboots" their life hopes?
Doesn't that by design turn it into a ghetto activity for the feckless? Which in turn puts off everyone else?
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Post by mouse on Apr 9, 2010 12:40:40 GMT
but you would have to waste a year wouldn't you? Say you leave school in the July, you want to go to College which enrols Spetember - when can you do this? ? gap yea....cant see a problem with it myself...but not quite draconian for me
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 9, 2010 13:22:39 GMT
When I was about 18 I lived and worked in a children's home, with 13 - 16 year old teenage girls who were in need of care or awaiting trial. The scheme was run by Community Service Volunteers which is, I think, operating. Jumbo, I was there only a few months (maybe three) and it taught be an awful lot! for sure, doing something for one day should teach you something. my point is that two months is not long enough to learn enough to tell anyone that you know how to do it, as in a marketable skill
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 9, 2010 13:24:15 GMT
I am not sure anyone is saying that it should be "paid" do I guess it is only for those not needing to earn a living, or those NEETs that could volunteer anyway now, if htey wanted to. It would certainly get in the way of doing anything positive like enrolling on a college course or doing an apprenticeship it is training and life experience that EVERYONE actually should have BEFORE they go to collega anyway
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 9, 2010 13:28:37 GMT
but you would have to waste a year wouldn't you? Say you leave school in the July, you want to go to College which enrols Spetember - when can you do this? Or maybe the target group are those who didn't do anything and this "reboots" their life hopes? Doesn't that by design turn it into a ghetto activity for the feckless? Which in turn puts off everyone else? how would it be a waste? you simply enroll in college NEXT september. in the meantime, you will have been doing something worthwhile instead of sitting around a dorm room guzzling beer
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Post by jade on Apr 9, 2010 13:34:41 GMT
its for 2 months jumbo.
which means if you really want to do it you waste the other ten months waiting to enrol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2010 13:39:04 GMT
for sure, doing something for one day should teach you something. my point is that two months is not long enough to learn enough to tell anyone that you know how to do it, as in a marketable skill Yes, having a marketable skill is useful, but even two months can teach someone how the "other half" lives , to apply themselves to tasks they might not want to do. The fact that someone has stuck out a programme without pay for two months tells an employer that they can get to work on time (if indeed they did!), do what they were told, carry out routine, boring jobs. No-one wants to employ someone so highly skilled that they can't lower themselves to empty the rubbish bin.
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Post by iamjumbo on Apr 9, 2010 14:37:13 GMT
for sure, doing something for one day should teach you something. my point is that two months is not long enough to learn enough to tell anyone that you know how to do it, as in a marketable skill Yes, having a marketable skill is useful, but even two months can teach someone how the "other half" lives , to apply themselves to tasks they might not want to do. The fact that someone has stuck out a programme without pay for two months tells an employer that they can get to work on time (if indeed they did!), do what they were told, carry out routine, boring jobs. No-one wants to employ someone so highly skilled that they can't lower themselves to empty the rubbish bin. of course, all of that is totally true, except the last, since the overwhelming majority of corporate ceos have NO skill and are only qulaified to empty the rubbish can, but are so delusional that they think they are above it. for sure, as i said, ANY endeavor, of any duration, should teach anyone to be a better person
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