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Post by june on Mar 28, 2010 21:50:24 GMT
Eating our swans Well, they're the Queen's swans really, though she has yet to make an official complaint. In August, however, according to a report in the Daily Mail, the Luton Angling Club felt moved to produce a sign which communicated the message, "The swans are not for eating" in pictographic form. There is no evidence that an eastern European has ever eaten a British swan, or indeed that these signs were ever posted anywhere. The Sun was roundly criticised in 2003 for a story about eastern European "asylum seekers" [glow=red,2,300]eating swans, which proved to be a curiously factless evocation of a weary urban myth.[/glow] . www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/nov/22/immigration.immigrationandpublicservices
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Mar 29, 2010 4:01:40 GMT
When i lived in Frankfurt there was a news story about some immigrants, who killed a swan on the edge of the Main river in downtown Frankfurt, and planned to cook it! They had trouble with the authorities, but i don't know if they were convicted of anything. It was mentioned in the news report that swans ( or storks ) are virtually inedible or rather unpleasent to eat for some reason. I think it had something to do with tough tendons and fat. This happened a long time ago and my memory is fading on this. The Swans may have been Storks too.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2010 6:46:03 GMT
In any event, killing and eating a swan for your supper is different in fact and degree from taking half a flock of sheep or all the ducks from a duckpond for commercial gain. One is (as Mouse said) bad manners and/or ignorance and if it is happpening, is probably easily stopped if the authorities had their way. The other is quite a nastier matter, and just as likely to be the lucrative income of our home-grown criminals.
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 7:20:54 GMT
talking of ponds...there was a village pond of historical note[note past tense] some where in the south uk..kent or suurey way]it had been there since roman times...the local council decided to re-line...and made such a mess of it that it is thought they have totally destroyed it.... ya couldnt mek it up....the locals it was reported are furious
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 7:26:32 GMT
actually a number of these ""urban myths"" have ended up in court have only had wild duck once...prefer farmed duck which is tenderer imo but i love to see the swan migration but what a noise they make ...
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Post by jade on Mar 29, 2010 9:02:00 GMT
I go HERE to see thousands of Swans (and, this year, lovely Pochard ducks) get fed - they winter here from all over the globe The bloke running the place said that the do occasionally lose one or two to poachers but it wasn't a huge issue They always have, apparently, as so very many will lead to a few being taken and not being missed. Sounds like urban myth to me
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2010 9:15:21 GMT
actually a number of these ""urban myths"" have ended up in court have only had wild duck once...prefer farmed duck which is tenderer imo but i love to see the swan migration but what a noise they make ... Yes, farmed duck is more tender - it doesn't always get a chance to exercise! I know there are some ethical, RSCPCA-approved duck farms but ever since I walked past some mallards housed behind tall fences with no pond I've bought wild duck. So I might well have been tucking into the contents of Mouse's local pond - who knows!
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 9:36:04 GMT
mouses local pond....is not the one mentioned which was ravished but there is a [private]pond next door to me...quite large..with geese..ducks....and just down the road a country park with a very large pond..fish n geese n swans n ducks.....the inhabitants often fly past honking away...such a din
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Post by Big Lin on Mar 29, 2010 14:08:39 GMT
I've got a personal interest in this thread since on another board I've been racially abused over it. A clown on a forum I won't mention accused me of SUPPORTING it because I'm a gypsy so I will only say that of course I hate animal cruelty.
More - well, let's see how this thread pans out.
I know it won't be as stupid, racist and abusive as the other board I found it on.
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Post by jade on Mar 29, 2010 14:15:10 GMT
Tehre are several people who put themselves outside of the law, and in doing so adopt a lifestyle that many of us simply do not understand
In a few cases this involves feeding from the land, be it poaching, stealing, skip diving and eating road kill.
The thing that makes us wrong is when we lump this behaviour into characteristics common to a group of people in which the characteristic may be found occasionally, or where the characteristic has been a part of the culture of that gorup in the past (living off the land, inattention to comon law, communality of property).
Poles, Asians, Irish, Gypsies, Roma, travellers.
They have all at some time had these things aimed at them. They are simply "other" and that sometimes is enough.
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 14:16:08 GMT
theres no reason to be racist or abusive.....right is right and wrong is wrong and it matter not a whit who comitts a crime..... gypsy..white..black..brown or green ...its still right or wrong..some ones race does not make it right any more than some ones race makes it wrong
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 14:24:01 GMT
nothing wrong with naming the group of people resonsible.....to hell with anyones culture....some ones culture is no excuse when out side their own country...no excuse at all if its a bunch of grotty chavs say so a bunch of lying lowlifes say so if its a bunch of immigrants from where ever with the feathers round their feet say so if it is thought to be a certain group...say so...the methods used tell their own story...[in this particular case]
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Post by mouse on Mar 29, 2010 14:28:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2010 15:04:41 GMT
Tehre are several people who put themselves outside of the law, and in doing so adopt a lifestyle that many of us simply do not understand In a few cases this involves feeding from the land, be it poaching, stealing, skip diving and eating road kill. The thing that makes us wrong is when we lump this behaviour into characteristics common to a group of people in which the characteristic may be found occasionally, or where the characteristic has been a part of the culture of that gorup in the past (living off the land, inattention to comon law, communality of property). Poles, Asians, Irish, Gypsies, Roma, travellers. They have all at some time had these things aimed at them. They are simply "other" and that sometimes is enough. The Mail story, summarised, is that although rumours were written off as anti-immigrant nonsense, the journalist had no problem finding evidence that it was the campers doing the killing. Implicit in the story is the idea that the authorities have, for some reason or other, not bothered to investigate; perhaps for fear of being accused of racism. Thus they walk a tightrope; investigate every allegation made against immigrants and they get accused of racism when they find nothing. On the other hand they will be accused of "political correctness" if they abandon their searches when an initial visit reveals nothing. Who'd be a police chief?
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Post by jean on Mar 29, 2010 15:39:29 GMT
...swans... are virtually inedible or rather unpleasent to eat for some reason... It was not always so - not in medieval Germany, anyway. It may be thought to be in rather poor taste [sic] to post this here, but I'll do it anyway: (Tenor) Olim lacus colueram, olim pulcher extiteram, dum cignus ego fueram. (Male chorus) Miser, miser! modo niger et ustus fortiter! (Tenor) Girat, regirat garcifer; me rogus urit fortiter; propinat me nunc dapifer, Nunc in scutella iaceo, et volitare nequeo dentes frendentes video... (Once I lived on lakes, once I was beautiful when I was a swan. Wretched me! Now black and roasting fiercely! The servant is turning me on the spit; I am burning fiercely on the pyre: the steward now serves me up. Now I lie on a plate, and cannot fly any more, I see bared teeth...)
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Post by trubble on Mar 30, 2010 2:05:08 GMT
actually a number of these ""urban myths"" have ended up in court Can you find one online? It's difficult. There's a report about a guy who was caught ''with white feathers stuck in his beard'' and bitemarks on a swan. His defence was that he was muslim and he was fasting and was starving and it was only a bird. (It was the 2nd day of Ramadan). Then he was told it was against the law and that swans belonged to the Queen so he said something like ''I hate this country! I hate the Queen! I am Muslim". LOL! Either he was a severely disturbed gentleman or he is the absolute best urban myth set up as a ''sting'' operation on the tabloids. I have never enjoyed a Marple Google quite so much.
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Post by jade on Mar 30, 2010 7:35:48 GMT
Sun accused of Swan Bake 'myth-making' 19 December 2003
Independent media watchdog the Presswise Trust has accused The Sun of urban myth-making by printing a story that alleged asylum-seekers were stealing and eating swans.
The front-page exclusive, headlined "Swan Bake", appeared in the newspaper on 4 July and prompted a complaint from a group of refugees living in the UK.
The group was advised by Presswise and wrote to the Press Complaints Commission alleging a breach of clause one of the Editors' Code of Practice, which governs accuracy.
The story said: "Callous asylumseekers are barbecuing the queen's swans. East European poachers lure the protected Royal birds into baited traps, an official Metropolitan Police report says."
Presswise asked the police about the alleged incidents and found that no one had been charged with any such offence in relation to swans.
The Sun printed a clarification on page 41 of the paper on Saturday that was agreed with the PCC.
It stated: "While numerous members of the public alleged that the swans were being killed and eaten by people they believed to be Eastern European, nobody has been arrested in relation to these offences and we accept that it is not therefore possible to conclude yet whether or not the suspects were indeed asylum-seekers."
According to Presswise, The Sun has not gone far enough.
A spokesman said: "There is no solid evidence to support a sensational story that has entered the public imagination, yet five months later The Sun is simply obliged to run a disclaimer that it confused conjecture with fact."
By Dominic Ponsford WwAAAAAAAAAY back in 2003!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 10:46:44 GMT
As I said before, the Mail reporter in the opening post claims to have found evidence. That's what journalists do; they witness things, they speak to people, they collect information which - even if it doesn't amount to evidence enough to convict, is an indication of what is going on.
Just because husbands aren't arrested doesn't mean that rape within marriage doesn't happen.
And think of the difficulty of arresting anyone in this situation. Even if police find three skinned swans being eaten by a group of campers, what proof do they have of who carried out the killing? I'm proably going to upset Lin by saying that is often the stumbling block when crimes are committed by travellers (who are. of course, not usually Roma gypsies but often disparate gatherings of drop outs from here, there and everywhere)
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Post by mouse on Mar 30, 2010 11:03:11 GMT
As I said before, the Mail reporter in the opening post claims to have found evidence. That's what journalists do; they witness things, they speak to people, they collect information which - even if it doesn't amount to evidence enough to convict, is an indication of what is going on. Just because husbands aren't arrested doesn't mean that rape within marriage doesn't happen. And think of the difficulty of arresting anyone in this situation. Even if police find three skinned swans being eaten by a group of campers, what proof do they have of who carried out the killing? I'm proably going to upset Lin by saying that is often the stumbling block when crimes are committed by travellers (who are. of course, not usually Roma gypsies but often disparate gatherings of drop outs from here, there and everywhere) absolutely skylark we can all KNOW some thing to be true...proving it in a court of law is some thing else... there are different ways of knowing things to be true eg poaching different groups/peoples use different methods for instance there was vandlism going on in our local town..the police..the taxi drivers..shop keepers ALL knew who it was...but they couldnt prove it the police know who most criminals are and where they come from but untill they can prove it they cannot bring a case... life is complicated some times but when certain things only happen when certain people are around it is fair to surmise that those certain people are responsible for what only happens when they are around
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 11:13:02 GMT
In many cases, though, it is obvious only that a crime has been committed, not who carried it out. I'm sure travellers get blamed for a lot of things just because they are around!
Often I had to visit someone as a result of a neighbour's report. The identity of the complainant was never revealed, but the "culprit" would say something like "Oh, I know who it was, It was that nosy old bat from number 29" (or whatever). Nine times out of ten they were wrong!
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