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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 8:38:57 GMT
So Fretslider and the nihilists (which includes me, incidentally) get their wish and the whole political system gets ripped up. Maybe aliens came down or summat and said we had to agree what we wanted, how we wanted to be ruled / governed / led / whatever
Clearly there is a need for some people to do that job (?)
How would you start? What would you put in place to built a better political framework?
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Post by fretslider on Mar 19, 2010 12:01:21 GMT
So Fretslider and the nihilists (which includes me, incidentally) get their wish and the whole political system gets ripped up. Maybe aliens came down or summat and said we had to agree what we wanted, how we wanted to be ruled / governed / led / whatever Clearly there is a need for some people to do that job (?) How would you start? What would you put in place to built a better political framework? Mmmm, I suppose I am something of an ontological nihilist. If the changes come peacefully through dialogue, a new settlement or constitution has to be the starting point. A body of independent (academic) people, NOT politicians............?
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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 12:47:23 GMT
Academics? Puffed up overbred self important single issue windbags fond of their own voice and the sycophantic adulation of youngsters?
If you want to see the mess that academics would make of a nation and its budget look at the average university. those that are successful employ proper managers. those that can do maths, for example.
Not a pop at teachers - more a shudder at some (male) academics I have known and to whom I would not entrust the management of a tuck shop let alone a country!
Now, jean on the other hand - definitely - cant think of anyone better (Octopus maybe?) to help draft fair legislation
Acadmics have their place but lets have a few problem solvers in there too
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Post by mouse on Mar 19, 2010 12:56:45 GMT
no no no academics...the arch bish of canterbury is an academic...michael foot was an academic save us from academics...purlese
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Post by jade on Mar 19, 2010 13:23:08 GMT
How about Alan Sugar for Purse - holder? Keeps the costs down but makes sure customer is happy?
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Post by fretslider on Mar 19, 2010 14:06:51 GMT
OK so no-one disagrees about a constitution as a starting point. So all we have to agree on next is the make-up of a body to thrash it out.
You don't like politicians, Bishops and Academics...... so who would you choose to participate in this august body?
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Post by Ben Lomond on Mar 19, 2010 14:17:26 GMT
Modern society is so complex, and so nihilistic, and so "human" (in the sense that human nature prevails, no matter what), that firm government and a set of enforceable rules is the only method by which we can hope to lead ordered lives. We pride ourselves by being democratic, in that we elect, and can remove from office, our chosen politicians. But once elected, then democracy does not exist, for politicians are human too, and will do what suits them best, rather than what is good for the benefit of the majority.
A society needs laws. It needs Police to enforce those laws. And it needs reminding that politics is the art of balancing the possible, against the desirable. A certain amount of pragmatism is vital. I'm not sure that we can improve much on the framework we in the west have at present, for while the theory that all men are created equal is a pleasant pipe dream; in modern society some will always be more equal than others.
So, as a cop out, I will offer the words of others (better qualified) who have pondered the problem.
"That government is best that governs the least, because its people discipline themselves". Thos. Jefferson
"Politicians are the same the world over. We build bridges where there are no rivers!" Kruschev.
"Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many, for appointment by the corrupt few" G. B. Shaw.
"The art of policing is to punish less often; punish more severely" Napoleon.
And we should perhaps leave the last word to Henry Mencken, who as often as not hits nails squarely on the head.
"A good politician is quite as unthinkable as an honest burglar"
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Post by beth on Mar 19, 2010 14:25:45 GMT
"Democracy is a form of government that substitutes election by the incompetent many, for appointment by the corrupt few" G. B. Shaw.
oh, absolutely!
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Post by riotgrrl on Mar 19, 2010 14:43:39 GMT
I disagree with the need for a single document constitution.
What would it offer us that we haven't already got?
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Post by mikemarshall on Mar 19, 2010 14:51:13 GMT
As a former academic myself I have to express a mild protest at the assumption that all of us are remote and effete intellectuals with no grasp on reality or experience of life.
Are there many like that? Of course.
Are the majority like that? Hardly.
Who would you trust more - an academic or a spiv?
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Post by Ben Lomond on Mar 19, 2010 17:12:41 GMT
Is one ever a "former" accademic?
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Post by mouse on Mar 19, 2010 17:39:18 GMT
get rid of career politos...get rid of parties and party lines..get rid of the whips office and get people who are honest..and have loyalty to their country and people and above all have priciples and integrity
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Post by jade on Mar 22, 2010 12:54:45 GMT
OK so no-one disagrees about a constitution as a starting point. So all we have to agree on next is the make-up of a body to thrash it out. You don't like politicians, Bishops and Academics...... so who would you choose to participate in this august body? People like this guyHe'll do.
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Post by fretslider on Mar 22, 2010 14:13:43 GMT
OK so no-one disagrees about a constitution as a starting point. So all we have to agree on next is the make-up of a body to thrash it out. You don't like politicians, Bishops and Academics...... so who would you choose to participate in this august body? People like this guyHe'll do. Oh no, definitely not. He's given this money away at the jeune age of 82 in his 50-50 deal with God. There is no god, this fellow is entirely unsuitable.
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Post by jade on Mar 24, 2010 8:10:52 GMT
He did uphold his promise (OK misguided as there is no god of course) and gave away more than he kept, with a view to doing good.
rather him than a self serving chancer after my tax ££s
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Post by fretslider on Mar 24, 2010 12:09:12 GMT
He did uphold his promise (OK misguided as there is no god of course) and gave away more than he kept, with a view to doing good. rather him than a self serving chancer after my tax ££s The ability to give (anyone's) money away is no basis for a system of government - surely Gordon has taught you that. Where there is money corruption is never far behind. A senator should... Be 40+ as a minimum age. And elected by those whose interests he/she will represent.
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Post by jade on Mar 25, 2010 8:54:47 GMT
nooooooooooo fretty, I was on about what it said about his ability to keep his word even when it costs him and his family a lot of money
Not the ability to spend but the ability to say what you are going to do an dthen do it.
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Post by jade on Mar 30, 2010 7:54:29 GMT
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Post by jade on Apr 20, 2010 15:02:57 GMT
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