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Post by gabriel on Sept 21, 2010 5:48:57 GMT
OK I'm with you now. I have heard of this bloke.www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/cjmorley/107.htmlLawende claims he only got a glimpse of the man he saw with Eddowes and doubted if he could identify him again. The first seaside home where the identification was supposed to have taken place, did not open until March 1890 in Hove, and Kosminski was not incarcerated until February 1891. Therefore, the earliest the identification could have taken place was February 1891. If Lawende only got a glimpse of the man and doubted he would recognise him again, how was he able to identify him with such certainty some 15 month later. It is therefore quite reasonable to assume that Lawende was not Anderson's witness, so who was. Lawende was in the company of two men that night, Harry Harris and Joseph Hyam Levy, who saw Catherine Eddowes with her likely killer. Harris took no notice of them, and was unable to supply any description, and was not called at the inquest. Levy, who for reasons not known, became distressed by the couple, this has led to speculation that he recognised and knew the man seen with Eddowes, and that it was he who was Anderson's witness. Levy was called to the inquest but was unable to supply a description, though the press remained suspicious as to the extent of what Levy actually saw or knew. It was the same Joseph Hyam Levy who supported the naturalisation application of Martin Kosminski, though despite the scarcity of the name, no connection has yet been established between Martin Kosminski and Ripper suspect Aaron Kosminski. Was Aaron Kosminski, Jack the Ripper. He did not die soon after being sent to Colney Hatch as Macnaghten and Swanson claimed, but some 30 years later. He was not removed to a lunatic asylum in March 1889 but February 1891. Even though few records of Kosminski's health have survived, in 1915 he was described as, slight in stature and light in build, his weight was given as under eight stone and even though his weight had slowly decreased he was described as in good health, which suggests that he was always slight of build. Aaron Kosminski was 23 years of age at the time of the Whitechapel murders. Kosminski, either in age or build, does not fit the eyewitness sightings of the Ripper. Elizabeth Darrell described a suspect over 40 years of age, while William Marshall describe a short stout suspect. Israel Schwartz described a broad shouldered suspect, about 30 years old. Mary Ann Cox described a suspect about 36 years of age and finally George Hutchinson described a suspect 34-35 years of age. Kosminski was at liberty for nearly two years after the murder of Mary Kelly, so why did he stop killing. There is also no evidence he possessed any anatomical knowledge or had violent, suicidal or homicidal tendencies, and was not considered a danger to other people. The Mile End workhouse infirmary declared that he had been insane for two years, therefore the onset of his illness started before the Ripper murders commenced. Would a prostitute, however intoxicated or desperate for money be comfortable accommodating an insane poor immigrant lunatic who was dirty and picked up bread from the gutter, when the word on the streets was that the Ripper was a foreign lunatic. In later years Macnaghten changed suspects and began to favour Montague John Druitt. Levy and Lawende must have said or done something to make the cops believe that one or both of them had seen Jack and could but wouldn't ID him. It's the only explanation that makes sense.
Could either of them have actually known Jack? Given the huge number of people squeezed into the East End, I'd find it highly unlikely. However, if some reasearcher ever comes up with a link between Levy's Martin Kosminski and Anderson/Swanson's Aaron Kosminski, then I'd say bingo - we're a step much closer to naming Jack. IMO.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 21, 2010 7:50:37 GMT
Name changes seemed common in Whitechapel. Maybe Kaminsky is just Kosminski made easier for English pronounciation.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper_suspects QUOTE: Martin Fido in his book The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper (1987). Fido claimed that the name "David Cohen" was used at the time to refer to a Jewish immigrant who either could not be positively identified or whose name was too difficult for police to spell, in the same fashion that "John Doe" is used in the United States today.[76] Fido identified Cohen with "Leather Apron" (see John Pizer above), and speculated that Cohen's true identity was Nathan Kaminsky, a bootmaker living in Whitechapel who had been treated at one time for syphilis and who could not be traced after mid-1888—the same time that Cohen appeared UNQUOTE Would it be conceivable that Martin Kosminski, Nathan Kaminsky ( born 1865 ), "Leather Apron", Martin Kosminski were the same?? www.casebook.org/suspects/davidcohen.html Of course if we are to believe that the ripper killed Elizabeth Stride at 1:00AM and Miss Eddowes body was discovered at 1:44AM the ripper didn't have much time for conversations.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 21, 2010 10:53:45 GMT
Kosminski, Kaminsky, Cohen. They're all brought up as possible pseudonyms for the same suspect. I read Fido's book on Cohen as Kosminski. I didn't buy his conclusion but I sure applaud him for trying to find a suspect who fit the facts.
Don't bring Leather Apron into it. Definitely not Jack. A bully for sure, but not Jack.
Stride was found around 12.55am from memory. Eddowes around 1.45am. Jack escapes from Dutfield's Yard, he takes off. He has (and I mean he literally has) to find a women to vent on. I can only imagine that the adrenaline was pumping when he left the yard. Heart racing, face flushed, breathing erratic, body probably shaking. He's got to calm himself down enough to be able to reasonably communicate with a pro to get her to go with him.
That night, with the cops already on his tail, he had enough self possession to chat up Eddowes and get her to go with him. OK. She was probably still half pi**ed, but she wasn't blotto.
Sort of goes against the idea of a rambling lunatic eating out of the gutters being Jack.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 21, 2010 12:55:43 GMT
Kosminski, Kaminsky, Cohen. They're all brought up as possible pseudonyms for the same suspect. I read Fido's book on Cohen as Kosminski. I didn't buy his conclusion but I sure applaud him for trying to find a suspect who fit the facts. Don't bring Leather Apron into it. Definitely not Jack. A bully for sure, but not Jack. Stride was found around 12.55am from memory. Eddowes around 1.45am. Jack escapes from Dutfield's Yard, he takes off. He has (and I mean he literally has) to find a women to vent on. I can only imagine that the adrenaline was pumping when he left the yard. Heart racing, face flushed, breathing erratic, body probably shaking. He's got to calm himself down enough to be able to reasonably communicate with a pro to get her to go with him. That night, with the cops already on his tail, he had enough self possession to chat up Eddowes and get her to go with him. OK. She was probably still half pi**ed, but she wasn't blotto. Sort of goes against the idea of a rambling lunatic eating out of the gutters being Jack. There is a good chance that the "suspect" seen chatting with Eddowes was Jack. Eddowes placing her hand on his chest could have been a gesture to keep him at a distance or calm him down. Of course we can't disprove the possibility that jtr was lurking in the shadows of Mitre Square hoping that the witness including Eddowes' conversation partner would move on.
It's been suggested that "Leather Apron" was Nathan Kaminsky and not Pizer www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/cjmorley/100.html QUOTE: Author Martin Fido, in the book The Crimes Detection And Death of Jack The Ripper, suggests that Kaminski was in fact the real Leather Apron, and that John Pizer was identified in error.
At least we're moving away from nonsense and nutty theories.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 22, 2010 6:04:23 GMT
Well, I gotta disagree with Fido about Leather Apron. I know Fido's the expert but I think he's wrong. Sgt George Godley (Johnny Upright) arrested Pizer. He knew Pizer well, and he knew that Pizer was referred to locally as Leather Apron. Godley wouldn't make a basic mistake and arrest the wrong guy. And it was Godley's arrest of George Chapman that sent Abberline off into his You've caught Jack the Ripper spiel. I really wish he hadn't gone there. It's caused so many red herrings. This is George.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 22, 2010 16:08:18 GMT
Well, I gotta disagree with Fido about Leather Apron. I know Fido's the expert but I think he's wrong. Sgt George Godley (Johnny Upright) arrested Pizer. He knew Pizer well, and he knew that Pizer was referred to locally as Leather Apron. Godley wouldn't make a basic mistake and arrest the wrong guy. And it was Godley's arrest of George Chapman that sent Abberline off into his You've caught Jack the Ripper spiel. I really wish he hadn't gone there. It's caused so many red herrings. This is George. Abberline's statement that Chapman was jtr seems to have been a sponanteous, euphoric off the cuff remark and later he wasn't so certain. However Chapman is one of the few "jtr suspects" that deserves to be on the list.
True most serial killers are stereotypical in their killing modus. Most authors only write the same type of books, but exceptions occur. Still no physical evidence to link Chapman or any other suspect to the ripper murders.
It's obvious that the police wished to protect the Jewish community in Whitechapel, when they erased the grafitti referring to Jews. Would a prime suspect of Jewish ethnicity get the John Doe/Daniel Cohen designation and be put in an asylum for the same reason that the graffitti was erased? Even if the answer is yes Sir Anderson's suspect was simply a suspect, unless we're not being told something.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 23, 2010 5:49:52 GMT
I don't think the police were particularly concerned about Jewish safety in Whitechapel. I think Warren just didn't want another Trafalgar Square. He was holding on by his fingernails anyway and indeed Jack was enough to cause his resignation.
There is no evidence whatsoever to tie in the Goulston St graffito with Jack. Jack was there - we have part of Eddowes' apron. But there is nothing that can prove Jack wrote those words The Juwes are the men that will not be blamed for nothing. WTH does that mean anyway?
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 23, 2010 11:44:13 GMT
At any rate if we follow up on Sir Anderson's claims among the "suspects"only a certain Daniel Cohen was put in a mental asylum and dies shortly afterwards. Was this name a pseudonym for Kosminski or Kaminsky?
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Post by gabriel on Sept 23, 2010 11:54:16 GMT
www.casebook.org/suspects/davidcohen.htmlDavid Cohen a.k.a. Nathan Kaminsky (Leather Apron?) Born: 1865 Died: October 1889 of "exhaustion of mania" at Colney Hatch asylum Occupation: Tailor (?) First suspected: First suggested in Martin Fido's The Crimes, Detection and Death of Jack the Ripper (1987) Description: Brown hair, brown eyes, brown-bearded or unshaven The "David Cohen" suspect is an expanded and revised version of what is known as the "Polish Jew theory", which in turn is originating from three primary sources: the 1894 Macnaghten memoranda, which introduced Kosminski as one of three major suspects, stating that he was "a Polish Jew & resident in Whitechapel. This man became insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices. He had a great hatred of women, especially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies; he was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889. There were many circs connected with this man which made him a strong 'suspect'" (Ref. MEPO 3/140, ff. 32-135) (see also suspect pages for Kosminski, Ostrog and Druitt); information about the killer (and the police's knowledge about his identity), revealed by Sir Robert Anderson (Assistant Commissioner CID at Scotland Yard). Anderson's theories about a "low class Polish Jew" appeared for the first time in an article in 1895, but was later repeated and slightly modified in his own book The Lighter Side of My Official Life (1910): "One did not need to be a Sherlock Holmes to discover that the criminal was a sexual maniac of a virulent type; that he was living in the immediate vicinity of the scenes of the murders; […] And the conclusion we came to was that he and his people were certain low-class Polish Jews […] I am almost tempted to disclose the identity of the murderer and of the pressman who wrote the letter above referred to. But no public benefit would result from such a course, and the traditions of my old department would suffer. I will merely add that the only person who had ever had a good view of the murderer unhesitatingly identified the suspect the instant he was confronted with him; but he refused to give evidence against him."; margin annotations in a copy of Anderson's memoirs, mentioned above, beloning to the retired ex-Superintendent Donald S. Swanson. The annotations, in Swanson's own hand-writing, begins at the bottom of page 138 (the passage about the witness who refused to give evidence against the suspect): "because the suspect was also a Polish Jew and also because his evidence would convict the suspect, and witness would be the means of murderer being hanged which he did not wish to be left on his mind. […] And after this identification which suspect knew, no other murder of this kind took place in London. […] Continuing from page 138, after the suspect had been identified at the Seaside Home where he had been sent by us with difficulty in order to subject him to identification, and he knew he was identified. On suspect's return to his brother's house in Whitechapel he was watched by the police (City CID) by day & night. In a very short time the suspect with his hands tied behind his backs, he was sent to Stephney Workhouse and then to Colney Hatch and died shortly afterwards - Kosminski was the suspect - DSS" According to these documents, we here have a poor Polish Jew, living in Whitechapel and who had "homocidal tendensies and a great hatred of women", and was confined to a lunatic asylum at the right time for the murders to stop and died shortly afterwards. As a result of Swanson and Macnaghten naming the suspect, this led to Aaron Kosminski being the most popular "Polish Jew suspect" during recent years of Ripper studies. But research has since shown, that Kosminski - a former hairdresser - was a harmless imbecill, whose guiding instincts told him not to accept food from others or to take a bath. He picked up food from the gutters and refused to work. He had once threatened his sister with a knife, but he was neither suicidal or dangerous. And more importantly: he wasn't admitted to Colney Hatch asylum until February 1891 and didn't die until 1919! Apart from Macnaghten and Swanson identifying him by name, Aaron Kosminski didn't seem to fit the Polish Jew brought in by the police, considering the time lapses and discrepancies in character. Fido, who originally set out to find someone called Kosminski - and who was supposed to have entered a lunatic asylum in the spring of 1889 (according to Macnaghten's account) - couldn't find him. Instead David Cohen appeared. In December 1888 a young and confused Polish Jew, found rambling on the streets and speaking little but Yiddish, was brought in by the police to the Leman station. Since he was uncommunicative, it was decided that he was unable to care for himself and that he should be taken to the parish workhouse. Then he suddenly became violent and had to be brought in under restraint. Since he didn't give them his name or adress, and noone recognized him, he was registered at the Infirmary as "David Cohen", which supposedly was used as a "John Doe" for East End Jew's without known identity, adress and next-of-kin. In the Infirmary Cohen proved too dangerous for the other patients (and himself) and was therefore transfered to Colney Hatch, once again under restraint. There he had to remain under constant observation due to his violent tendensies; he was rambling and described as "spiteful and mischievous", he spat out food, had to be force-fead, tore down a lead pipe and wire window-guard in the yard, he was destructive, kicked passers-by and had to wear a "strong dress" in order not to tear his own clothes into pieces. Today he would most likely have been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. In October 1889 he was confined to his bed in the asylum and a few days later he died. If this was Jack the Ripper, then how does Kosminski fit the David Cohen connection? Throughout the Ripper investigation the police had been seeking for a dangerous character, called "Leather Apron" (before the name "Jack the Ripper" had been established) who'd attacked and threatened prostitutes. A man named John Pizer had early on been accused of being identical with him, but was later cleared from suspicion and released. "Leather Apron" was one of many Jews from the poorest class connected to the "sweating trade" as a bootmaker or tailor, and he was supposed to have lived near Buck's Row (where Polly Nichols was killed). Fido's research pointed towards a Polish Jew called Nathan Kaminsky, who proved a suitable candidate as "Leather Apron" and who lived in Black Lion Yard, right in the centre of the Ripper murders. In March 1888 he had been diagnosed as syphilitic at the Whitechapel Workhouse Infirmary (indicating that he would have been in sexual contact with prostitutes), wherefrom he was released and cured from his illness in May the same year. After that he disappears from the face of the Earth and no further records can be found of his whereabouts. Fido argues that the dangerous schizophrenic "David Cohen" and the elusive Nathan Kaminsky actually are one and the same, and that his name was changed to David Cohen by the police, since they didn't know his identity or didn't bother to spell his name correctly, due to over-crowding and language difficulties. Then Macnaghten and Swanson confused the imbecill Aaron Kosminski with the "raving lunatic" David Cohen. There is no reason to doubt that Aaron Kosminski was mentally ill, taken into custody and then to his brother's house (and finally admitted to Colney Hatch), but he was neither dangerous or kept under restraint, and it didn't happen in 1888 or 1889. The theory is, that the witness confrontation referred to by Anderson and Swanson (where the witness - probably Lawende - had encountered the possible suspect in connection with the murder of Catherine Eddowes) actually involved David Cohen/Kaminsky and not Kosminski, and that Macnaghten and Swanson mixed them up when they named the suspect. Thus, the timing and the differences in character could be explained. Nevertheless, while some claim the David Cohen theory and the Kaminsky/Kosminski confusion to be quite far-fetched and unnecessary complicated or abstract, others regard it as one of the more seriously researched and ground-breaking works to date. Reasons for suspicion: "David Cohen" is the only insane Polish Jew who was committed to an asylum at the right time for the murders to stop - and the only registered lunatic pauper admitted to Colney Hatch between 1888-1890 who fits the extremely violent suspect described by Anderson, Macnaghten and Swanson. He also - in contrast to Aaron Kosminski - died shortly after the canonical Ripper murders ceased. Problems with candidacy: The "name confusion" connected to Kosminski as well as the alleged link to Nathan Kaminsky or "Leather Apron" remains circumstancial and not proven. Furthermore, statements made by Robert Anderson in 1889 and Abberline in 1903, indicating that they had failed to catch or identify Jack the Ripper, seriously challenges the notion that the killer's identity was known to the police.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 25, 2010 5:44:30 GMT
Cohen/Kaminsky??/Kosminski??? is at least a violent person, who endangered others. It's hard to believe Mary Kelly would let him into her room. Or that he didn't get caught, if guilty. No pictures or sketchs to indicate what this insane asylum inmate looked like. I could imagine Anderson being guilty of "Victorian era profiling" as Macnaughton obviously was.
This link has more information about Martin Kosminski!
www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-polishjew.html
He seemed like a normal enough person, married, ran a furrier business. Mr. Levy would have certainly been shocked to see him with a street prostitute ( if it was him? ) and 5 minutes later this woman was dead.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 25, 2010 11:38:47 GMT
Summary
Scotland Yard named ‘Kosminski’ as a Ripper Suspect, a surname that only a dozen men had in all of London in the 1891 census. It seems likely that Joseph Levy, only one of a handful of witnesses who may have actually seen the Ripper, probably recognized the man he saw with Eddowes as someone named ‘Kosminski’ in view of Levy’s prior association with Martin Kosminski. What is even more remarkable is that this same Levy was apparently associated with the family of another lunatic, Hyam Hyams, who could have been the City Police’s chief suspect. In addition, when one considers that both Hyams and Kosminski went to Colney Hatch Asylum at approximately the same time (ie, Hyams for the second time in January 1890 and Kosminski in February 1891), then there exists a possible source of confusion between the City Police, who thought Hyams was the Ripper, and the Metropolitan Police, who thought the Ripper was Kosminski. Both men practiced ‘self-abuse’ and had to be taken to the asylum under restraint. Both were also described as homicidal; Hyams ‘a homicidal maniac,’ and Kosminski having ‘strong homicidal tendencies.’ The possibility remains that both Hyams and Kosminski may have been identified at different times by a single witness, Joseph Hyam Levy.
Thanks for that report anna. It's as good an idea as anyone else's. I believe that Lawende and Levy saw Jack and probably could have identified him within the next 12 hours.
See, I don't think Eddowes was staggering through Mitre Sq to get anywhere. I think she was soliciting along Duke St, most likely outside the Imperial Club and that's where and why Lawende and Levy saw her, knew what she and her 'client' were up to and that's why they didn't want to get involved.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 26, 2010 5:07:12 GMT
Well Gabe! Of course if we assume that Mr. Levy saw Martin Kosminski with Miss Eddowes it's realistic to assume that Mr. Kosminski noticed too that his dear friend Mr. Levy recognized him a married man with a street prostitute. We could reasonably suspect that Martin was filled with shame and abruptly left Miss Eddowes, who was about to meet the real jtr, who killed her 5 minutes later.
As your article shows Sir Anderson later expressed this QUOTE: Furthermore, statements made by Robert Anderson in 1889 and Abberline in 1903, indicating that they had failed to catch or identify Jack the Ripper, seriously challenges the notion that the killer's identity was known to the police.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 26, 2010 6:20:39 GMT
Now I don't necessarily believe any of this stuff! I'm just putting it out there as theories from different writers. I must admit I'd never before thought of Eddowes soliciting around Mitre Sq but in retrospect why else was she there? She needed money, she'd been locked up for a few hours so she needed to get a john and get earning again.
Look Martin Kosminsky may well have been playing an accordion outside Mitre Sq for all I know! I think his association with the witness is throwing a big red herring into discussions about the case. It would be just too much of a coincidence, IMO, for him to have been lurking around just moments before Jack sidles into view.
Just as it's too much of a coincidence to believe that there were 2 serial killers with the same MO of killing out and about in the East End on the same night, which is what writers who don't want to include Stride try to make people believe.
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 26, 2010 14:55:32 GMT
Hi Gabe! I took a look at Hyam Hyams ( www.casebook.org/dissertations/rn-hyam-hyams.html ) who you mentioned. It's hard for me to picture a lunatic getting away unnoticed. And in this case 6 times! Still Hyams is more "suspicious" than the non Whitechapel resident "canonical suspects".
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Post by gabriel on Sept 27, 2010 5:49:38 GMT
Thanks for the link. Interesting. From the article:
It is easy to understand why Hyam Hyams might be considered a suspect in the Whitechapel murders. First of all, he was a lunatic who became progressively more violent as his mental state collapsed. He attacked more than one person with a knife. He was first institutionalized some seven weeks after the Mary Kelly murder; after which the murders stopped. He was raised in Mitre Street, just off Mitre Square where Catharine Eddowes was murdered. Also Mark King states that Eddowes’ body was found immediately outside the back window of number 8 Mitre Street, a business run by a Mr. Taylor in 1888 but which in 1861 had been operated as a cigar manufacturing business by Hyam Hyams’ uncle, Lewis Levy.
According to the 1881 census and the 1884 London Business Directory another of Hyams’ uncles, John Levy, was living at and running a cigar manufacturing business from 254 Whitechapel Road. It was right next door to this address, on the step of number 253, that Thomas Coram found a long knife wrapped in a bloodstained handkerchief the day after the murders of Stride and Eddowes.
Moreover, when Hyam Hyams was fi rst admitted to the Whitechapel Workhouse Infi rmary in December of 1888 he gave his address as 217 Jubilee Street, Mile End. Right next door, at 218 Jubilee Street, was a leather shop owned by a Mr. Marsh. In October of 1888 Mr. Marsh’s daughter, Emily, was minding the shop when a tall, strange man, dressed in a long black coat with either a Prussian or clerical collar, entered and asked for the address of George Lusk, the head of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee. The man’s actions aroused the girl’s suspicions to the extent that when he left she sent the shop boy after him to follow him. Later on, a man loosely fi tting the description of the stranger was seen by Lusk watching his house. This was followed by Lusk receiving the so-called “Lusk kidney” in the mail.
Of greater interest is the theory that eyewitness Joseph Hyam Levy might have known Hyam Hyams and his family. Levy, who along with Harry Harris and Joseph Lawende, saw a man and woman, probably Catharine Eddowes and the Ripper, standing next to the entrance to Church Passage, which led into Mitre Square, only minutes before Eddowes’ murder. Levy stated in his inquest testimony that he remarked to Harris “I don’t like going home by myself when I see these sort of characters about. I’m off.”(6) Theorists have wondered what it was about this couple that frightened Levy. Moreover, a newspaper report(7) suggested that Levy “knows something, but that he is afraid to be called on the inquest.”
These cryptic statements, along with the information that in 1877 Levy had sponsored a Martin Kosminski’s application for British naturalization, has led some to theorise that perhaps Levy had recognized the man standing with Eddowes and was afraid to come forward with this information. This identifi cation is usually connected with the suspect Kosminski, but King makes the case that Levy must have known Hyam Hyams and perhaps recognized him as the Ripper. It is impossible to say whether Joseph Hyam Levy actually knew Hyam Hyams or not. King points out that the 1891 census lists Hyams’ mother, Fanny Hyams, as having moved into number 24 Mitre Street. This residence had been owned by Henry Lyons, the uncle of Amelia Lewis, Joseph Hyam Levy’s wife, and Amelia had once lived there years before. Also Hyams’ uncle, Samuel, was living right next door to the Lewis family, according to the 1861 census. It is diffi cult to prove, however, whether Levy would have been aware of these tenuous connections that seem, for the most part, to have occurred more than twenty years earlier. However, as both the Hyams and Lewis families seem to have had a long connection with Mitre Street, it is always possible that Levy did know them through his wife and her family, however there is no concrete proof either way. More importantly, there is no proof that Joseph Hyam Levy actually recognized the man he saw next to Church Passage the night of Eddowes’ murder.
The same goes for much of the rest of King’s theory. It must be taken as just an interesting coincidence that Catharine Eddowes’ body was found near the back of a shop that had once, many years earlier, been owned by Hyam Hyams’ uncle. The knife found in Whitechapel Road was never connected to the Ripper murders, and Dr. Bagster Phillips, who examined it, felt that it was not the knife used in at least the Stride murder. Hyam Hyams also did not fi t the description of the man who aroused Emily Marsh’s suspicions in Jubilee Street. The stranger was about forty fi ve years of age, six feet tall and spoke with an Irish accent. Hyams was thirty three years of age at the time, described as being 5 feet 7 inches tall and probably spoke with an East End London accent.
Finally, Hyam Hyams was not Sir Robert Anderson’s Jewish suspect and, so far, there is no existing evidence that he was ever suspected by the police of having been Jack the Ripper.
Much of the case against Hyam Hyams can be dismissed or downplayed. On the other hand, Hyams’ mental condition – with violent attacks on family members and health personnel, and time spent in various lunatic asylums as this condition worsened – cannot. He is exactly the type of individual who should be investigated more closely when searching for possible suspects in the Whitechapel murders.
If the killer was not actually Hyam Hyams, it was most probably someone like him.
AAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!
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Post by gabriel on Sept 27, 2010 5:54:24 GMT
That was interesting but I think there's a lot of stretching hearsay and evidence to make this work. That's the problem with a lot of the Ripper theories - they'll find what they want to back up their suspect and/or motive and discard what doesn't work. And you can't do that if you to find the real truth.
Sometimes my head spins when I try to make sense of all the suspects and theories.
I think Hyams was too wacky to be Jack. What sane woman, even if she was still half sozzled and needed money, would go into a backyard/alley/yard/filthy bedroom for sex with a drooling, semi coherent, obviously disturbed whacko?
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 27, 2010 15:23:28 GMT
Quite True Gabe! A lunatic would have to simply move in for the kill and they get caught as a rule. Sounds like more Victorean era profiling. A lot of time and resources has been wasted also on non Whitechapel residents like Druitt, Tumblety, etc. etc.
I think at most only 10% of the "suspects" would be capable of strangling someone with a vice like grip and not reacting to the scratching, kicking and other defensive moves.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 28, 2010 6:25:27 GMT
Jack had to be someone from around that area. Maybe not Whitechapel itself but close and within walking distance. He had to be able to present himself rationally until he moved in for the kill. You can wipe out all the non-East End candidates. I agree absolutely.
The thing with Jack is that he wasn't having sex with the pros. I'm sure sex was at the root of his raison d'etre (bet I spelled that wrong) but he wasn't after them for sex. All he wanted was to mutilate their bodies.
How does this sound? Jack was:
* working, probably at a menial job, probably something to do with slaughtering animals. He killed Fri, Sat, Sun.
*living in or close to Whitechapel
*late 20's/early 30's - probably had a light moustache.
*personable, non-threatening, able to communicate sufficiently with women to get them to go with him.
*smart enough to work out how to slash their throats with the carotid artery pumping out blood away from him.
* living on his own - no doss house; or else family/friends who don't ask too many questions or else protect him.
* not concerned about being discovered - a risk taker, a disorganized killer. There was no ritual about Jack's murders. Strangle, disembowel, move on.
More to add or do you think I've got something wrong?
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 28, 2010 17:46:35 GMT
* not concerned about being discovered - a risk taker, a disorganized killer. There was no ritual about Jack's murders. Strangle, disembowel, move on. More to add or do you think I've got something wrong? Hi Gabe! I only respectfully disagree with your final point, which Ressler also supports! I believe jtr planned from the beginning to display his victims in this messy, shocking manner. He was very conscious of how these displays would shock the community. The mutilating was only a secondary pleasure and his knowledge of human anatomy allowed him to cut while looking away from his victim.
Murderers corresponding to the your last point are indeed very careless as a rule. They become absorbed in the murder and forget their surroundings. If they do leave the crime scene unnoticed they're likely to walk around with blood splattered clothing until someone notices them. They almost never become serial killers because they're caught after their first murder.
I think it should be emphasized that jtr was a rather strong person compared to most Whitechapel residents. The vice like stranglehold and the deep slicing knife cuts almost amputating the head prove this point. A weakling would just stab straight in and out and could never silence someone with a stranglehold. I think we can eliminate the weaklings starting with Aaron Kosminski, etc.
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Post by gabriel on Sept 29, 2010 7:21:37 GMT
OK. Fair enough. I think your point about Jack being fairly strong physically is a good one. I'd never really given it a lot of thought. Although he wasn't going after men, he was going after tipsy pros. But anyway, your point is valid.
Let me ask you this question. If all Jack was interested in was posing these women to shock society, then why did he take body parts as trophies? See that's a classic SK action and Jack was doing this before SK's were even recognised/identified, let alone profiled.
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