♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 29, 2009 4:46:55 GMT
Thanks Anna So then, a lot of it really is conspiracy theory. Dearest Beth! If Mary Jo Kopechne died in a normal automile accident with tk driving i would regard it as a tragedy, but there is really a very dark side here that i just can't ignore! As far as the affairs of politicans go i really don't make a big deal out of it.. Clinton with Lewinski, etc.. The ex-French Prime Minister Mitterrand even fathered children out of affairs with his mistresses and the French don't make a big deal out of it and i don't either.. I don't flip out if the local plumber has an extramarital affair either!
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♫anna♫
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The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Aug 29, 2009 5:13:53 GMT
Thanks for the link Das! Your assumption that Mary Jo Kopechne drowned is disputed! www.wordiq.com/definition/Mary_Jo_Kopechne QUOTE: However, undertaker Eugene Frieh told reporters that death "was due to suffocation rather than drowning," and diver John Farrar, who removed Kopechne from the car, claimed she was "too buoyant to be full of water." Since Mary Jo's parents' lawyer Joseph Flanagan filed a petition barring an autopsy, the cause of death was never medically confirmed.
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Post by Alpha Hooligan on Aug 29, 2009 17:06:12 GMT
He was scumbag who supported the IRA, he should've kept his nose out of British business in Northern Ireland.
He won't be missed by me.
AH
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Post by Liberator on Aug 31, 2009 2:30:54 GMT
Without him the IRA might still be a terrorist organisation instead of a political one. You'd prefer that for an excuse to shoot anybody in support of Irish independence? So we should shoot UKIP and the BNP since they want the same for England in relation to the EU.
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Post by Ben Lomond on Aug 31, 2009 11:55:03 GMT
Without him the IRA might still be a terrorist organisation instead of a political one. You'd prefer that for an excuse to shoot anybody in support of Irish independence? So we should shoot UKIP and the BNP since they want the same for England in relation to the EU. Come on, Ratarse!. Kennedy was at best a very tiny bit player in the so called "peace agreement". The IRA changed tack and became "political" when the realised that the British government (and Blair in particular) would roll over and do anything they asked in exchange for the so called "Good Friday agreement". The subsequent release of all IRA mass murderers makes the brouhaha over Megrahis release the proverbial storm in the teacup. Kennedy was at best an ingenue abroad and had no part in the murky deal that was the Good Friday agreement!
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Post by Liberator on Aug 31, 2009 14:17:00 GMT
There's been UDF terrorists released as well. I'll accept that Kennedy was in effect a reliable back-bencher but his name is behind a lot and that is much more what you want of a politician than a brilliant one-trick pony never to be heard of again. I don't much care about putting the IRA in power (nor do I care about re-uniting the country: the North is far more trouble than it's worth) but it is only what has happened in every similar case. Gerry Adams is no worse than Archbishop Makarios or Jomo Kenyatta and their like.
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Post by clemiethedog on Sept 1, 2009 15:32:14 GMT
I read Senatorial Privilege about 15 years ago when it first came out. It was quick read, very riveting, and very interesting.
This is my bio of Ted Kennedy:
He was the archetypical mediocre frat boy back when the most notorious of his ilk was just in prep school. Expelled from Harvard for having a classmate take a Spanish test, Edward M. Kennedy (named after his father’s trusted assistant, Eddie Moore), had to lie low while his father made amends to the fabled university. The year was 1951 and Americans, like many members of the United Nations not in the Soviet hemisphere, were fighting in Korea. Kennedy enlisted in the army where he did his own version of foxhole digging by serving stateside and in Europe. That his older brother was a decorated war hero, a US Representative, and later US Senator perhaps may have spared the younger Kennedy from any dangerous assignments.
Rather than delve into any ancient charges of cronyism, let’s just assume that having served his two-year hitch, young Kennedy was readmitted to Harvard, an unprecedented move for perhaps the most competitive college in the US. Usually once Harvard expels an undergrad, he remains expelled. After becoming the only Kennedy to letter in football, a feat only accomplished by playing in The Game (the Yale game), Kennedy was graduated with an AB and then attended the University of Virginia Law School, following in his other brother Robert’s footsteps. As a law student, in 1958, he managed his brother Jack’s campaign for re-election, a mere formality as the charismatic and appealing young politician garnered nearly 80% of the vote.
Despite the new respectable position, the younger Kennedy remained a frat boy, once leading police on a high speed chase which ended with the senator’s campaign manager lying on the floorboards of his car in someone’s driveway. Upon graduation, Kennedy became an assistant DA for Boston, where he tired no cases but made plenty of speeches, becoming known, so to speak, to the Massachusetts organizers.
When brother Jack reached the White House, JFK wanted his old college roommate and Navy buddy Torbert MacDonald, then a US representative, to take his vacated senate seat. When MacDonald, a somewhat independent man unaligned to Daddy Kennedybucks, indicated that he had no intention of stepping aside in two years, some stooge (who for the life of me I cannot name) filled in and waited for the younger prince to come of age. Having finally reached the constitutional required age of 30, Ted jumped on his tricycle and peddled off to Washington to play Senator. All was rosy at the time. Jack was a popular and almost worshiped president, Bobby was the fighting Attorney General taking on Mafia dons and promoting civil rights, and Ted’s star shone bright, the beneficiary of Kennedy mystique without the burden of accomplishing anything.
Then things started to unravel and Ted had to grow up, whether he was ready to or not. Although he stuck to the Kennedy tradition of screwing any woman with two legs to spread, he remained a mere afterthought when Bobby drew the sword from the stone and wielded Excalibur following JFK’s tragic assassination. When RFK met his own untimely demise at the hands of the Palestinian terrorist Sirhan Sirhan, Ted was thrust into the spotlight, giving a moving eulogy punctuated by a quotation by George Bernard Shaw*.
The funeral of Robert Kennedy was for many a long desolate, remorseless demonstration of defeat, as the reformers who followed the Kennedys to the seats of power scattered in the ineluctable diaspora as the hopeful sixties crashed to an end. There, Ted Kennedy was left alone to carve out his own legacy and it sadly manifested itself during the summer of 1969 when he drove a car off the Dyke Bridge into Poucha Pond on Chappaquiddick Island.
That Kennedy should have tired to save Mary Jo Kocpechne or at the very least immediately alterted the authorities is inarguable. He was a frat boy stuck in a man’s body with all the trappings of adulthood and he was ill-prepared to meet those requirements.
In the ensuing aftermath Kennedy met with alternating defeat and success. Unlike his brothers, he became a force in the US Senate, the leading figure in the unending debate over health care; he became not just the walking example of unearned privilege, but rather a formable political power in his own right. Through it all, though, he was a Kennedy, and the Kennedy libido was always active. His wife, Joan, moreover, was no Jacqueline Bouvier and her life became so miserable that she took solace in alcohol, adding further humiliation to the tarnished image of Ted Kennedy. The charade finally ended in 1980 when Kennedy lost 24 of 34 primaries to the woefully unpopular incumbent Jimmy Carter.
Divorced from Joan, Kennedy continued his schoolboy antics until the embarrassing incident in Palm Beach, when he was spotted roaming his parent’s seaside estate without his trousers after a night of carousing at Au Bar with his son and nephew. Shortly thereafter he admitted his shortcomings during a speech at Harvard Yard and vowed, finally, to grow up – on the eve of his 60th birthday. He then met, and subsequently married, Victoria Reggie, herself a divorced attorney, and his life finally settled down and he became, as we all hope for, happy and content.
Freed from burden of iniquitous expectations, he settled down to his true vocation and continued to excel. As his senate seniority grew, so did his stature. The indefatigable champion of liberal causes, he formed alliances and friendships for the benefit of the common good with Republicans across the aisle, from the moderate John McCain to the conservative Orrin Hatch. Throughout his 46-year career, he was magnet to the best and brightest young minds eager to learn the insanity known as national legislation. For all his liberalism, he was no demagogue. He became, despite his pampered and spoiled youth, a respected senior statesmen.
It was this titan of the senate that is in the thoughts and prayers of many of his countrymen last year when his illness became known. He was ridiculed as a laughable crown prince only by the small minded men and women who sneer at all their ideological opponents from the sidelines, heaping scorn and finding no compassion. Although he never would have begun his long journey with neither his father’s money nor his brothers’ legacy, Ted Kennedy became his own man and his proud record of achievement is his alone.
God Speed, Edward Moore Kennedy, you led an incredible journey and know more than anyone what it is like to live in the proverbial fish bowl.
*During his brief 1968 presidential campaign Robert Kennedy often used the line, "some men see things as they are and ask, why? I dream things that never were and ask, why not?" Addressing the Irish Parliment in 1963, President Kennedy quoted Shaw as, "you see things and ask why? I dream things and ask, why not?" JFK had it right.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Sept 3, 2009 2:02:10 GMT
As soon as cancer was found, I noticed the immediate attempt at canonization of old Teddy by the main stream media. They are saying what a "great American" he is. How utterly ridiculous. The guy wasn't great at anything. His track record was very sad indeed. His saving grace was that he came from a very very rich family and they spent lavishly to cover up his many serious screw ups. He achieved nothing and he made a fool of himself many times. He was perhaps the very worst Senator in US History.
Here are just a few facts at Teddy.
1. He was caught cheating at Harvard when he attended. He was expelled twice, once for cheating on a test, and once for paying a classmate to cheat for him.
2. While expelled, Kennedy enlisted in the Army, but mistakenly signed up for four years instead of two. Oops, the man can't count to four. His father, Joseph P. Kennedy, former U.S. Ambassador to England (a step up from bootlegging liquor into the US from Canada during prohibition), pulled the necessary strings to have his enlistment shortened to two years, and to ensure that he served in Europe, not Korea, where a war was raging. No preferential treatment for him like *he* charged President Bush received. 3. Kennedy was assigned to Paris , never advanced beyond the rank of Private, and returned to Harvard upon being discharged. Imagine a person of his "education" NEVER advancing past the rank of Private. 4. While attending law school at the University of Virginia, he was cited for reckless driving four times, including once when he was clocked driving 90 miles per hour in a residential neighborhood with his headlights off after dark. Yet his Virginia driver's license was never revoked. Coincidentally, he passed the bar exam in 1959. Amazing!!! 5. In 1964, he was seriously injured in a plane crash and hospitalized for several months. Test results done by the hospital at the time he was admitted had shown he was legally intoxicated. The results of those tests remained a "state secret" until in the 1980's when the report was unsealed. Didn't hear about that from the unbiased media, did we?
6. On July 19, 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts. At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond.
7. He swam to shore and walked back to the party, after passing several houses and a fire station. Then two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the police the next morning and by then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began "calling in favors", ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne's family received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of friendship"? 8. Kennedy has held his Senate seat for more than forty years, but considering his longevity, his accomplishments seem scant. He authored or argued for legislation that ensured a variety of civil rights, increased the minimum wage in 1981, made access to health care easier for the indigent, and funded Meals on Wheels for fixed-income seniors and is widely held as the "standard-bearer for liberalism". In his very first Senate roll, he was the floor manager for the bill that turned U.S. immigration policy upside down and opened the floodgate for immigrants from third world countries.
9. Since that time, he has been the prime instigator and author of every expansion of and increase in immigration, up to and including the latest attempt to grant amnesty to illegal aliens. Not to mention the pious grilling he gave the last two Supreme Court nominees, as if he were the standard bearer for the nation in matters of right. What a pompous ass!
10. He was known around Washington as a public drunk, loud, boisterous and very disrespectful to ladies. JERK is a better description than "great American".
Let's not allow the spin doctors make this jerk a hero. How quickly the American public forgets what his real legacy is.
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♫anna♫
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Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 3, 2009 6:06:23 GMT
6. On July 19, 1969, Kennedy attended a party on Chappaquiddick Island in Massachusetts. At about 11:00 PM, he borrowed his chauffeur's keys to his Oldsmobile limousine and offered to give a ride home to Mary Jo Kopechne, a campaign worker. Leaving the island via an unlit bridge with no guard rail, Kennedy steered the car off the bridge, flipped, and into Poucha Pond. 7. He swam to shore and walked back to the party, after passing several houses and a fire station. Then two friends returned with him to the scene of the accident. According to their later testimony, they told him what he already knew, that he was required by law to immediately report the accident to the authorities. Instead Kennedy made his way to his hotel, called his lawyer, and went to sleep. Kennedy called the police the next morning and by then the wreck had already been discovered. Before dying, Kopechne had scratched at the upholstered floor above her head in the upside-down car. The Kennedy family began "calling in favors", ensuring that any inquiry would be contained. Her corpse was whisked out-of-state to her family, before an autopsy could be conducted. Further details are uncertain, but after the accident Kennedy says he repeatedly dove under the water trying to rescue Kopechne, and he didn't call police because he was in a state of shock. It is widely assumed Kennedy was drunk, and he held off calling police in hopes that his family could fix the problem overnight. Since the accident, Kennedy's "political enemies" have referred to him as the distinguished Senator from Chappaquiddick. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident, and was given a SUSPENDED SENTENCE OF TWO MONTHS. Kopechne's family received a small payout from the Kennedy's insurance policy, and never sued. There was later an effort to have her body exhumed and autopsied, but her family successfully fought against this in court, and Kennedy's family paid their attorney's bills... a "token of friendship"? I just have trouble believing that TK really was in that car when it went over the bridge! Did Mary Jo Kopechne say no to something that TK wanted from her? Did TK push the car off the bridge with Mary Jo dead or unconsciousness inside?? What's easier to believe? Was TK incredibly stupid and capable of driving a car over the bridge or was he incredibly criminal ( ? ) and outraged that Mary Jo resisted his advances and maybe threatened to press charges after something "non-consensual" took place! Without the autopsy we can only wonder!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Sept 3, 2009 23:43:19 GMT
Anna - No one can say with certainty what really happened that night. But we do know that Kennedy took Mary Jo in his car on the guise of taking her home. But he wasn't driving in the direction of her home at 1:30AM, he was driving to the beach. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he had in mind. It's also likely that he was stone drunk. Kennedy has always had a drinking problem and that's been very well publicized.
So I think it is likely that he drove off that bridge by accident. Being really intoxicated he'd have been disoriented and barely able to get himself out of the car and onto dry ground. In that condition, performing underwater rescue dives would not have been possible for the drunk.
Mary Jo more than likely made herself available to her boss and it cost her a lot more than she was expecting.
What I find most amazing is the fact that Kennedy money and liberal press were able to resurrect Kennedy's career and get him reelected. That's the amazing part of this story.
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♫anna♫
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 4, 2009 4:45:04 GMT
Anna - No one can say with certainty what really happened that night. But we do know that Kennedy took Mary Jo in his car on the guise of taking her home. But he wasn't driving in the direction of her home at 1:30AM, he was driving to the beach. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what he had in mind. It's also likely that he was stone drunk. Kennedy has always had a drinking problem and that's been very well publicized. So I think it is likely that he drove off that bridge by accident. Being really intoxicated he'd have been disoriented and barely able to get himself out of the car and onto dry ground. In that condition, performing underwater rescue dives would not have been possible for the drunk. . Of course tk repeatedly denied being under the influence of alcohol. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chappaquiddick_incident QUOTE: At 7:30 pm that evening Kennedy made a lengthy prepared statement about the incident which was broadcast live by the television networks. Among other things, he said that:[21] he "was not driving under the influence of liquor". UNQUOTE Even if we accept your intoxication theory he continued to behave in a criminal manner after an "intoxication" would have worn off! Mary Jo more than likely made herself available to her boss and it cost her a lot more than she was expecting. What I find most amazing is the fact that Kennedy money and liberal press were able to resurrect Kennedy's career and get him reelected. That's the amazing part of this story. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jo_Kopechne QUOTE: Kopechne lived in the Georgetown neighborhood with three other women.[1] She was a fan of the Boston Red Sox and of fellow Polish-American Carl Yastrzemski.[2] She was a devout Roman Catholic with a demure, serious, "convent school" demeanor, rarely drank much, and had no reputation for extramarital activities with men. UNQUOTE I don't believe your suspicion that Miss Kopechne was interested in being tk's extramarital plaything for the night! I wouldn't assume that of a female staff worker for George Bush either! I'm sure many of tk's female supporters were only in love with tk's political platform and not him. Mary Jo Kopechne was 8 days short of her 29th birthday and had surely said "NO" to many guys in her life. As a devout Roman Catholic, she would certainly say "NO!" to a prowling tk! Some blogs even suggest that Mary Jo was "gay"-hearsay of course, but i'm even more irritated by hearsay that suggests a normal female couldn't say "NO" to tk! I'm sure tk's car had some special security features, perhaps extra thick glass and as the diver confirmed all the doors were locked and perhaps unable to be opened by someone trapped inside. With this scenario tk only had to get Mary Jo into his car to trap her inside and drive off!
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Sept 8, 2009 1:30:02 GMT
I think Mary Jo was ready to lay down for Ted. Why else would she be in his car with him at 1:30AM headed for the beach?? Many attractive young women are attracted to power and money especially if the rich guy puts some moves on them. I think he did and she bought it.
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Post by beth on Sept 8, 2009 1:49:37 GMT
Quote: Some blogs even suggest that Mary Jo was "gay"-hearsay of course, but i'm even more irritated by hearsay that suggests a normal female couldn't say "NO" to tk! I'm sure tk's car had some special security features, perhaps extra thick glass and as the diver confirmed all the doors were locked and perhaps unable to be opened by someone trapped inside. With this scenario tk only had to get Mary Jo into his car to trap her inside and drive off! But, in reality, we have no way of knowing what MJK thought or felt. Sometimes, assuming and presuming are worse than hearsay.
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Post by Liberator on Sept 8, 2009 3:48:38 GMT
It was still a time when some people would fuss about a man being linked to a woman much more than to having another man in his car. He probably knew and feared JFK's hidden association with women. It does appear to show how prejudiced 'our' world has been against heterosexuality where nobody would look twice at two men or two women in a car.
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Post by DAS (formerly BushAdmirer) on Sept 13, 2009 0:59:09 GMT
It was still a time when some people would fuss about a man being linked to a woman much more than to having another man in his car. He probably knew and feared JFK's hidden association with women. It does appear to show how prejudiced 'our' world has been against heterosexuality where nobody would look twice at two men or two women in a car. You lost me there Retarded. What was that about? The guy was preparing to bang her on the beach. There weren't any social messages about gay liberation. He was about to get laid but he was stone drunk and drove off the road into the pond. She died. He lived. His money bailed out his career.
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Post by chefmate on Sept 13, 2009 2:11:08 GMT
so how was he able to get out of the car?
i have read she lived about an hour after the car submerged
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 13, 2009 4:03:22 GMT
I think Mary Jo was ready to lay down for Ted. Why else would she be in his car with him at 1:30AM headed for the beach?? Many attractive young women are attracted to power and money especially if the rich guy puts some moves on them. I think he did and she bought it. Dearest BushAdmirer, Your "why else" thought line is simply insulting to the memory of Mary Jo Kopechne! May she rest in peace! There were no witnesses in the parking lot so tk could have even forced Mary Jo into his car and hit the lock system to keep her in. Mary Jo was compared to tk's flirts very hard to get, if not impossible. She was a good Catholic with no history of affairs with married men.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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karma:
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 13, 2009 4:11:38 GMT
so how was he able to get out of the car? i have read she lived about an hour after the car submerged Dearest Chefmate! Read my posts from Aug 28, 2009 on this thread. I strongly suspect that Mary Jo was already dead when the car went over the bridge and tk was standing on the bridge and not in the car. Why was there so much blood in Mary Jo's mouth, nose and on her clothes? The blood must have had time to set in too.
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♫anna♫
Global Moderator
Aug 18 2017 - Always In Our Hearts
The Federal Reserve Act is the Betrayal of the American Revolution!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Sept 13, 2009 4:17:36 GMT
Quote: Some blogs even suggest that Mary Jo was "gay"-hearsay of course, but i'm even more irritated by hearsay that suggests a normal female couldn't say "NO" to tk! I'm sure tk's car had some special security features, perhaps extra thick glass and as the diver confirmed all the doors were locked and perhaps unable to be opened by someone trapped inside. With this scenario tk only had to get Mary Jo into his car to trap her inside and drive off! But, in reality, we have no way of knowing what MJK thought or felt. Sometimes, assuming and presuming are worse than hearsay. Dearest Beth! No we don't know all the facts and "Dead Men" or this this case "Dead Women tell no tales!" The fact is that tk only notified the police, when he saw that the police had discovered Mary Jo's body. Who was he making a phone call to before he saw the police were on the scene? Someone who could make Mary Jo's body disappear? frontpage.americandaughter.com/?tag=mary-jo-kopechne QUOTE: The three men subsequently crossed back to Chappaquiddick Island on the ferry, where Kennedy made a series of phone calls from a payphone by the crossing to his friends for advice; he again did not report the accident to authorities. The Discovery Earlier that morning, two amateur fishermen had seen the overturned car in the water and notified the inhabitants of the nearest cottage to the pond, who called the authorities at around 8:20 am. A diver was sent down and discovered Kopechne’s body at around 8:45 am…. Police checked the car’s license plate and saw that it was registered to Kennedy. When Kennedy, still at the pay phone by the ferry crossing, saw that the body had been discovered, he crossed back to Edgartown and went to the police station….
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