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Post by Big Lin on Jan 10, 2009 21:39:57 GMT
What is a humanist? What do we believe, and how far can we make a reasoned case for a morality that is not based upon the notion of some kind of supernatural being guiding our lives?
Humanism is much older than many people imagine. The first openly humanist thinker was Heraclitus around 600 BC. His work is lost but fortunately some of his sayings were preserved. The same is true of the next important humanist figure, Protagoras, another Greek and a contemporary of Socrates. Socrates rightly saw him as his most dangerous philosophical rival.
Protagoras' most famous quote was 'man is the measure of all things.' By that statement he meant that what benefits and enriches human beings constitutes the true value of life.
The same principle was expressed in the eighteenth century by Jeremy Bentham, one of the most decisive philosophical influences of his time. His most famous disciples were Thomas Jefferson and John Stuart Mill.
Bentham said that the good was 'the greatest happiness of the greatest possible number.' He regarded it as the duty of the state to provide for the welfare of its citizens and for each person to extend compassion and care towards other people.
There is no need for any kind of supernatural being to explain how such a philosophy of life, if practised more or less on a consistent basis, would benefit the world.
Under the influence of humanism, torture became the exception rather than the norm in civilised countries; capital punishment was restricted to crimes of murder rather than offences against property, as had formerly been the case; freedom of thought, speech and writing became the norm rather than the exception; and freedom of political assembly, the extension of the franchise, the amelioration of working conditions and the gradual granting of rights to women were some of the most important results of the new humanist influence.
Humanism stands for freedom, tolerance, compassion, and the exercise of the free critical intelligence. Wherever humanist values have predominated, society has benefited. Wherever religious ideals have been the dominant force, society has suffered in terms of freedom, human rights, kindness and the general level of intelligence of the population.
Perhaps it is time we all said goodbye to Big Daddy (or, in the case of the matriarchal pagans, Big Mummy) and learned to walk on our own two feet in our fascinating cosmos in which there IS almost certainly NO hand to guide us, NO voice to tell us how we should behave.
To walk alone rather than in chains is no doubt a terrifying prospect to some but in no other way will the upward and onward progress of humanity be assured.
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Post by Big Lin on Jan 10, 2009 21:40:28 GMT
This is another post my husband made on another board which I'm transferring here because it's quite interesting.
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Post by everso on Jan 12, 2009 16:44:04 GMT
I don't need the threat of hellfire to make me behave myself.
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Post by mikemarshall on Jan 14, 2009 20:25:20 GMT
I am almost tempted to make one of my feeble attempts at humour but perhaps not.
This post is one I posted originally on another board and it was intended to evoke a response.
To be fair to the majority of religious believers (at least the ones I have mixed with!) threats of hell-fire do not appear to rank high on the scale of their sales pitches.
However, they certainly do claim that it is much harder to support morality if one does not subscribe to belief in a supernatural being.
In my humble opinion they are entirely mistaken in that contention.
Ultimately, we all have the capacity to act morally whatever our beliefs and the track record of religions tends to suggest that people frequently behave WORSE when they are convinced of their own rectitude, or, even more alarmingly, their own salvation.
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Post by everso on Jan 15, 2009 23:20:19 GMT
I am almost tempted to make one of my feeble attempts at humour but perhaps not. This post is one I posted originally on another board and it was intended to evoke a response. To be fair to the majority of religious believers (at least the ones I have mixed with!) threats of hell-fire do not appear to rank high on the scale of their sales pitches. However, they certainly do claim that it is much harder to support morality if one does not subscribe to belief in a supernatural being.In my humble opinion they are entirely mistaken in that contention. Ultimately, we all have the capacity to act morally whatever our beliefs and the track record of religions tends to suggest that people frequently behave WORSE when they are convinced of their own rectitude, or, even more alarmingly, their own salvation. See, I don't understand this. Are they saying that if they didn't believe then they wouldn't be moral? If so, they aren't really moral, they are just paying lip service to it because someone's watching! I'm not religious (as Iamjumbo will tell you - we've had "discussions" on this) but I DO believe in living by the 10 commandments - well with the exception of the God bits! I may not believe much of what the Bible says, but they certainly got a few things right.
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Post by ronmorgen on Jul 3, 2009 1:26:43 GMT
However, if there is a God, then we would benifit from inquiring of him because of his greater wisdom, don't you think.
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Post by Big Lin on Jul 3, 2009 1:58:11 GMT
In the first place, Ron, I'm delighted and honoured (not to say a little surprised) that you've joined my little board.
As you've probably seen, I'm a Christian married to an agnostic.
Mike is a wonderful man and he's saved me from my bad and sinful youth.
Just because he is an agnostic doesn't mean that he's a bad man.
He's a good man and he does admit that there MAY be a God but he's not sure.
He also thinks it's MORE likely that there's life after death than that there ISN'T.
I am so touched that you have joined my little board.
You are a kind and wonderful person as I knew already from our meetings on the Prophecy Board.
One thing that worries me is that I'm broadly a liberal and I am nervous about posting that side of me on Prophecy.
I am a Christian but my God is a God of love and compassion.
I know you are a kind and loving person and I am so touched and honoured that you are here.
I am in a state of shock to be honest!
An exalt to you just for joining us, you lovely person!
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Post by ♫anna♫ on Jul 3, 2009 4:29:36 GMT
Many "Non-Believers" are very spiritual people! This nonsense about hellfire for non-believers is Churchianity, not Christianity! Anyone, who sincerly believes in his heart that there is no God ( or has sincere doubts ) is innocent as Christ says in the New Testament! Those who were misled by the real evildoers to support Christ's crucifixion were also innocent and were forgiven in Christ's words!
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Post by mouse on Jul 3, 2009 7:58:15 GMT
my eldest sister was a humanist...as a human being a decent human being she was 2nd to none
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2009 14:17:19 GMT
I am almost tempted to make one of my feeble attempts at humour but perhaps not. This post is one I posted originally on another board and it was intended to evoke a response. To be fair to the majority of religious believers (at least the ones I have mixed with!) threats of hell-fire do not appear to rank high on the scale of their sales pitches. However, they certainly do claim that it is much harder to support morality if one does not subscribe to belief in a supernatural being.In my humble opinion they are entirely mistaken in that contention. Ultimately, we all have the capacity to act morally whatever our beliefs and the track record of religions tends to suggest that people frequently behave WORSE when they are convinced of their own rectitude, or, even more alarmingly, their own salvation. I'm not a believer in anything, but find solace in the teaching of Christ, which are sometimes a good fall-back if one's own moral code leaves room for doubt. So when people say it is harder to support morality without a shared moral code, I can understand that. A "make-it-up-as-you-go-along" set of standards leaves plenty of room for self negotiation and justification. But then so does the Bible, from what I have read of it!
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Post by mouse on Jul 3, 2009 17:31:26 GMT
i dont believe in god...i like the ethics of christian teachings as taught by the church of england which are pretty much the basic"" do as you would be done"" i dont see it leaves much room for any quibble about right and wrong and is not a make it up as you go along either... there are circumstances where survival or the greater good come into play..but on the whole it isnt exactly hard to know right from wrong as for hell..mm a good ruse for keeping people on the straight and narrow and certainly a good ruse for keeping the poor and ignorent in their place with promises of eternal bliss...never mind that their living is misery
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Post by ronmorgen on Jul 3, 2009 23:09:32 GMT
As a Christian I can tell you Christianity is based on the bible which is a book by God, about Himself and what he expects from us, and what he has done for us. And that is, He has made a way through Christ for us to become perfectly holy in His eyes. If you really think you are without sin, it s not for you, but if you realize you have sinned, the cross provides forgiveness and cleansing, and the resurrection provides a new life. Humanists want to be good people and this is the way.
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Post by Liberator on Jul 3, 2009 23:14:51 GMT
Most non-animist religions come down to treat others as yourself with a deeper level of there are really no 'others', we are all the same thing but don't realise it. 'Humanism' means two different things. Today, it's often used as a synonym for 'Atheist'. In the past, it was a Renaissance religious development that now is strong in some parts of the Roman church (but then was suspected of heresy), to emphasise the humanity of Jesus as God became human to understand humanity and looked to what the Bible called works and to caring about other people over the blind obedience to ritual dogma that the Roman church demanded and blind belief in scripture as literal truth that Protestants like Calvin demanded, both of them 'letter of the Law' obscuring 'spirit of the Law'. Erasmus was the greatest of all those Humanists. Naturally, being an intermediate between two extremes, Humanism became a victim of both and began the self-exclusion of religion as a source of ethics in human interactions because the religious on both sides rejected it.
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Post by ronmorgen on Jul 3, 2009 23:44:22 GMT
Thank you Ratarsed for the history lesson. I didn't know that. Catholic and Protestant churches have taught and done some things that pushed people away from Christ. But Jesus himself only offended the self righteous, arrogant hypocrites, the masses followed him and were blessed. That is why I don't put any confidence in religious organizations, but only in the person of Jesus Christ and his word.
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Post by beth on Jul 4, 2009 1:09:25 GMT
Thank you Ratarsed for the history lesson. I didn't know that. Catholic and Protestant churches have taught and done some things that pushed people away from Christ. But Jesus himself only offended the self righteous, arrogant hypocrites, the masses followed him and were blessed. That is why I don't put any confidence in religious organizations, but only in the person of Jesus Christ and his word. Yes, agreed. Organized religion was and is created by humankind in attempts to define and control particular belief systems - pretty successful attempts in fact - the underpinning being a quest for power over the faithful.
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Post by Liberator on Jul 4, 2009 20:32:17 GMT
Philip Jose Farmer wrote a series of novels in which everybody who ever lived is reincarnated for unknown purposses along the banks of a river ten million miles long. Naturally the first thing they do is to repeat all the old mistakes of setting up warring states until they find that death only leads to more reincarnation. There is a rumour that Jesus was reincarnated in a state run by Herrn Krämer and Sprenger, the authors of Malleus Maleficarum and consequently burnt as a heretic.
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Post by pumpkinette on Jul 4, 2009 22:01:08 GMT
Thank you Ratarsed for the history lesson. I didn't know that. Catholic and Protestant churches have taught and done some things that pushed people away from Christ. But Jesus himself only offended the self righteous, arrogant hypocrites, the masses followed him and were blessed. That is why I don't put any confidence in religious organizations, but only in the person of Jesus Christ and his word. ;D YES! I'm a believer also. Jesus saved my sanity, literally, after a family tragedy that happened when I was 24. There's other reasons to put confidence in Jesus Christ: how He fulfilled prophecies; His life lived with NO sin; His example was perfect and consistent (NO hypocrisy), etc. Also, look how He and His followers changed the world so much for the better! That's another proof to me of the validity of Jesus, His teachings, etc.
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Post by pumpkinette on Jul 4, 2009 22:02:33 GMT
As a Christian I can tell you Christianity is based on the bible which is a book by God, about Himself and what he expects from us, and what he has done for us. And that is, He has made a way through Christ for us to become perfectly holy in His eyes. If you really think you are without sin, it s not for you, but if you realize you have sinned, the cross provides forgiveness and cleansing, and the resurrection provides a new life. Humanists want to be good people and this is the way. What's so wonderful is that God COULD HAVE made getting salvation complicated, time-consuming, etc. Instead, He made it very easy on us. That proves His love for us. ;D
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Post by ronmorgen on Jul 5, 2009 16:34:55 GMT
Amen, just believe. So easy a child can do it.
My faith has been strengthened by latter day fullfilled prophecy also, such as the gathering of the Jews back to their homeland after centuries in dispersion. That fulfills about fifty prophecies such as Ezekiel 11:17: "'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2009 19:07:00 GMT
As a Christian I can tell you Christianity is based on the bible which is a book by God, about Himself and what he expects from us, and what he has done for us. And that is, He has made a way through Christ for us to become perfectly holy in His eyes. If you really think you are without sin, it s not for you, but if you realize you have sinned, the cross provides forgiveness and cleansing, and the resurrection provides a new life. Humanists want to be good people and this is the way. What's so wonderful is that God COULD HAVE made getting salvation complicated, time-consuming, etc. Instead, He made it very easy on us. That proves His love for us. ;D I for one find the Bible very complicated and time consuming. Neither does it answer all the moral questions we have to face in modern life; how could it?
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